my wsop dreams destroyed by the river...

[whippedspoon 0]

the play was fine..nothing terribly wrong with it except the fact that you were butting heads with a big stack. you don't want to take big risks like that. it wouldn't have hurt you a lot to lay it down. If someone goes all in on you, you really have to believe you have the nuts. If you go all in...it's different. But if you're calling an all in bet you have to have the nuts. your two pair was a good hand...but it's beat by trips which he could have had. he could have had 99 or 88 or 33. But you also had to worry about the flush draw, which is why this is not a horrible beat. It's horrible cause he had an overpair and was behind and counterfeited your hand on the river. However, if he did have a four flush then you're really gambling cause he was going to hit that flush like 30% of the time. But you have to take risks to win I guess...but it wasn't completely unexpected that you would lose that hand...it just sucks you lost it the way you did.

[bulldog999 0]

The jacks could not have been much of a fav. with three callers behind them. 89o is not a bad hand to have when you are getting 6/1 on your money. Especially because if it hits, you're probably gonna break someone. If I hit 2 pair with those, I'd be praying someone had an overpair. It was a bad beat, not a bad play. I agree the big stack was an issue but with 57 players still in it was too early in the tourney to go into stall mode and just try to get in the money.

[SiliconSlim 0]

I don't see how calling the all-in raise with only 2 pair is a good play, even if you have the read on an overpair. A 3-1 advantage when you're close to the bubble in good chip position is simply not good enough in a tournament where 1-16 pay the same. There's a reason everyone tightens up around the bubble. The guy could have flopped trips, or perhaps he raised with Jh10h, which puts you behind in the hand even though you're made. Granted, the guy WAY overplayed his hand, but sometimes you have to be able to let go even when you think you're ahead at the moment.Two pair is *not* the hand you're looking for when you play 98 from the BB.

[Ebonwoulfe 0]

I think a lot of people would agree that, even though you had the best hand, you *have* to fold it here. If 16 places get a seat and it doesn't matter which of the 16 seats you get, then calling the chip leader who just raised all-in with ANY hand can be a stupid, stupid move. You're only a small favorite when the penalty was a slightly better shot at a seat you might win anyway.Of course he should have laid it down facing the bet you put in, but still...

[rogermarks 0]

all those colors bum me out man. come on.

[Scott3705 0]

honestly, usually I'll agree with erring on the side of prudence in MTT, but the critique of this play is boggling my mind. Chip Stack: he is healthy, but he is AVERAGE. He is clearly not guaranteed to make it into the money yet and top two pair against and overpair is a great chance to work toward guaranteeing that. I am going to take a 3to1 shot any day to get myself asured of a seat even if it has the possibility to break me.the preflop call: 89o is not an awful call. I would prefer them to be suited, but I like calling. It's a huge pot that he can get in cheaply for to see if he can get lucky (which he did). I feel like the critique of the call is something I see posted about limit cash game hands, not NL tournament hands. FLOP play: check raise could have been alright, but still nothing wrong with what you did.

[Ebonwoulfe 0]

I h!

[Ebonwoulfe 0]

And now that I reread the position and realize just wtf is going on, yeah it was a good play, just a bit unfortunate. You were much much farther away from the prize than I thought.

[srharris22 0]

Personally, The bet out on the flop was the killer play personally. I know that check raising is obvious, but that is what i want at this point, so what if everyone checks? If another heart comes along, you don't get hurt, as you can fold for fear of the flush, and when the river hits, i bet you are invested for less than 3k and can fold easily to any bet.I am typically a more aggressive player but i think, you have to realize the situation, slow down a bit against a big stack or equal stack. as someone stated earlier there are a few hands that have you dominated or atleast behind like 99, 88, j10s, as well as 33 And i am making that all in reraise with those hands, but I might have fold JJ as i hate then and refuse to lose with JJ or AQ if can be helped anyone catch DN name for AQ? I think it was 2.7 as he lost 2.7 million dollars while holding AQ, i love that b/c that hand is even named after Brunson as he hates AQ also. Not sure if there if there is another hand that pro's hate more! Sorry for the offtrack comment.In the end, the call is fine preflop but i might have played it post flop differently due to my opponent but it seems you have gotten some good props for excellent play and i figure that you might have had a the perfect read, If so and you put them on TT to AA then i am all for your play, just a bad beat in the end, like the JJ and TT that have beaten my AA in the last 2 limit tourneys when i was CHip leader with at most 20 players remaining and left me finishing in 11 and 10 out of 150 players. Both times rivered a straight. No wsop tourney but........

[FileError404 0]

All right... I WASN"T CLOSE to getting the seat...the tourney went on for 2 more hours. It's an excellent structured tourney with 2500 chips, 30 minute blinds, so even though there were only 304 players, it lasted almost 7 hours.At the time I'm slightly over average with the chipleaders in the 25K to 30K range. If I take this pot I'm in excellnt position to make it, if I fold I'm under average and back to the grind. I'm NOT a SMALL favorite, I'm a huge favorite and the only thing I regret is not going all-in to begin with. As to putting him on an overpair...we were at the same table for 2 hours and I pay attention while playing. I knew it...period. You have to (and I usually can) trust your reads in big situations. Of course that backfires once in a while but my ERA (ErrorReadingAholez...) is low )Aaaanyway...have I mentioned I got AA 5 times in this tourney, played it the same every time (4xblinds) and NEVER got called? Well, I still won't slowplay 'em...It's a cruel game and don't you ever forget it!!N.C.

[fluxer 0]

Good play. Unfortunately the river wasn't very favorable.

[Scott3705 0]

I don't see how calling the all-in raise with only 2 pair is a good play, even if you have the read on an overpair. A 3-1 advantage when you're close to the bubble in good chip position is simply not good enough in a tournament where 1-16 pay the same. There's a reason everyone tightens up around the bubble. Smile The guy could have flopped trips, or perhaps he raised with Jh10h, which puts you behind in the hand even though you're made. Granted, the guy WAY overplayed his hand, but sometimes you have to be able to let go even when you think you're ahead at the moment.Two pair is *not* the hand you're looking for when you play 98 from the BB. SmileI can't say that I understand this comment. It's clearly the best hand. Hard to put him on 99 or 88 beacuse all of those cards would be out. Probably not raising with 33 preflop. Nothing left but an overpair. (J10, maybe but only a very tricky player would do that. But you're wrong, he's not a dog, it's a coin toss http://www.twodimes.net/poker/?g=h&b=9h+3h...+9c%0D%0Ath+jh). In addition, he is not close to the 16 seats. Two pair is not the hand he wants to hit? Fine, he really wants to hit the nut str8, but you can't sit around and wait for the nuts. You looked for positions to get your chips in as a huge favorite.

[Ebonwoulfe 0]

This is a result that shocks a lot of peopleA hand yesterday I saw 6h Jh take down KQo on a 6 T Q board.They were moaning about the bad beat (he made a J for two pair).I said "The J6 was a little ahead on that flop, I think"And the KQ player said "No, I had top pair"I remained silent after that, because I thought I might be wrong (but confident I was not wrong by much).For the record, I was right, but only by 0.4%Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 6s Qh Thcards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EVKs Qc 491 49.60 499 50.40 0 0.00 0.496Jh 6h 499 50.40 491 49.60 0 0.00 0.504

[Saint Joel 0]

just pretend it happened to you in level one of the WSOP

[SiliconSlim 0]

But you're wrong, he's not a dog, it's a coin toss http://www.twodimes.net/poker/?g=h&b=9...+9c%0D%0Ath+jh).

How can I be wrong if he other guy has more than a 50% chance to win the pot? I didn't need an online calculator to tell me I was right.In any case, this conversation is probably going to go down the same road as the one about Suited Up's hand at the WPT tourney. In that case as well, I was an advocate of calling the turn rather than pushing all in. It's just a matter of personal preference...One of us prefers to bust out, one of us prefers to stay alive. 8)

[Wlleiotl 0]

considering whos site this is alot of people are horribly weak tight and wont play any hands other than the nuts.... i cant believe anyone can find a flaw in the guys play, its perfect, ul man

[SiliconSlim 0]

considering whos site this is alot of people are horribly weak tight and wont play any hands other than the nuts.... i cant believe anyone can find a flaw in the guys play, its perfect, ul man

I'm pretty sure calling all-in with the 4th best hand (if you want to be generous) and 2 cards to come isn't how pro tournament players make their living.

[Scott3705 0]

I posted the online calc just in case. I thought u were trying to say that he could have been a 2 to 1 favorite which you can be without having a made hand yet. Usually I don't refer to a .4 edge as a favorite in a tournament. I was one of the ones who agreed that Kurt should have just called the turn. I think this situation is much different though. Kurt would not have folded his nut str8 if he was put all in on the turn (with the read the guy had A rag). In this case the OP was put to a decision for all of his chips when he had the best hand. i agree you need to survive, but you don't fold a huge favoriate to an all in unless you're one person from the bubble. (And I still wouldn't do it then.)

[Scott3705 0]

considering whos site this is alot of people are horribly weak tight and wont play any hands other than the nuts.... i cant believe anyone can find a flaw in the guys play, its perfect, ul man

I'm pretty sure calling all-in with the 4th best hand (if you want to be generous) and 2 cards to come isn't how pro tournament players make their living.

But it was the best hand. Pro poker players make their living knowing that their hands that aren't the nuts are the best hand some times. I don't think you can always say... " well he could have this, this or that" because you can come pretty close to removing all three of those better hands from this situation.

[SiliconSlim 0]

I posted the online calc just in case. I thought u were trying to say that he could have been a 2 to 1 favorite which you can be without having a made hand yet. Usually I don't refer to a .4 edge as a favorite in a tournament. I was one of the ones who agreed that Kurt should have just called the turn. I think this situation is much different though. Kurt would not have folded his nut str8 if he was put all in on the turn (with the read the guy had A rag). In this case the OP was put to a decision for all of his chips when he had the best hand. i agree you need to survive, but you don't fold a huge favoriate to an all in unless you're one person from the bubble. (And I still wouldn't do it then.)

I know, I was just being a pedantic dick about the 0.4%, but I knew it and wasn't technically wrong. :)I still think calling the all-in in that situation is not a good play, I would have been far more favorably inclined to *going* all in and putting the decision on the other guy. He makes wrong decision and gets lucky, but calling is weak (contrary to what Wlleiotl thinks) and puts you at risk unnecessarily.

[Footballguru 0]

I must admit i am shocked by the criticism of his play, especcially on Negraneau's site! anyone who would fold 89 at 5-1 preflop with a decent stack is way too tight of a player to be succesful in MTTs. And not looking to hit top 2 pair? WTF? There are times in poker where you would just have to pay your opponent off when he hits a set. How is this play is being criticized- i havent the faintest idea. If you are pretty sure you are a 75% favorite and dont want to put your money in the pot, then you should not play poker! It was a good play, and like he said, the river, and not his decisions, cost him a trip to the WSOP.

[Coocoo 0]

You played it correctly no worries! Your call pre-flop was appropriate in my opinion, as was calling the all-in with what was almost certainely the best hand. You had a read, and it was correct, and you got your money in with the best of it, all you can do from there is not get unlucky... You were in a good spot to become a chip leader, it just happens sometimesDon't play scared poker!!!

[Big-Ern777 0]

How can anyone say his call is wrong...He has top two pair and the only realistic hand his opponent can have is a flush draw/pair or high pockets. The only hand beating him here is the set and no player with at least half a brain pushes all-in for that much at the flop. We all know majority here would slow-play or make a callable raise. Good call, bad luck...Sure a fold is correct when you're only a slight favorite and don't feel the need to gamble all your chips, but the decision here is not debateable at all with his odds.

[kzammmm 0]

i would call 400 with 72 . 400 and the pot was 2600 i would called with 1 card if thats all i got lol. the only thing is i would checked the flop :wink: gl next time

[dontlookdown 0]

i just thought id add my own bad beat that dashed my wsop hopes. i raised on the button with 5s5c and was called by the bb. the flop was 5d4s4c. the bb goes all in and i call the 30000 he bets. hes got 10d4d. the turn shows a blank K and the river come 4h thus giving him quads and leaving me with 3000 in chips.