Zach6668 513 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 This monument is for the fans, IMO, and they all seem to have forgotten his transgression in favor of his greatness. He deserves to be on. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 So Patrick Roy arguably the greatest goalie ever, shouldn't be honoured by the Habs? I didn't say he shouldn't be honoured. I didn't say Sundin shouldn't be honoured either. Both put themself ahead of the team and I personally take that into consideration. Others may not. Also, Patrick Roy has those things in his ears.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Sundin not wanting to be traded was a frustrating situation, but come on, like he's the first player to ever put himself above the team? You could just as easily argue that any time a player is eating McDonalds instead of working out that he's hurting his team. That's one very small data point when considering his career. His lack of cups is a significant data point when discussing his career. His stats are another one. Put it all together and you have the best individual player for the Leafs in the last 20 years, over a period when the team sucked, and who felt like he'd earned the right, duly negotiated into his contract, to not have him and his family uprooted mid-season to help out what would now be his former team. He's an all-time great Leaf, any way you slice it, and deserves to be honoured. No, he wasn't the first player to put himself above the team, but that hardly excuses him in my opinion. The McDonald's reference is dumb. Like I said, whether he deserves to be honoured is a matter of opinion. I can see the argument that he deserves it. Can you see the argument that there are others more deserving? Or does Sundin get bonus points because of the era he played in? Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 This monument is for the fans, IMO, and they all seem to have forgotten his transgression in favor of his greatness. He deserves to be on. Wayne hasn't. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted August 15, 2014 Author Share Posted August 15, 2014 No, he wasn't the first player to put himself above the team, but that hardly excuses him in my opinion. The McDonald's reference is dumb. Like I said, whether he deserves to be honoured is a matter of opinion. I can see the argument that he deserves it. Can you see the argument that there are others more deserving? Or does Sundin get bonus points because of the era he played in? Well the ultimate reason it should be Sundin is that he is a hall of famer. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Well the ultimate reason it should be Sundin is that he is a hall of famer. The Hall of Fame is based on what someone does for the game of hockey. I assumed the honor we're talking about now is based on what someone did for the Maple Leafs franchise. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Double double Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 When I was in Cleveland alot of Browns were coming into the hotel eating Mcds at 9 pm. I just sat in the lobby with Otto and watch them come in. Quite a few said hi to us and I was like who are you. If memory serves me correctly Sundin was a single guy so no family had to be uprooted. Was Sundin a great Leaf, no question he was. Did he earn the right to say no to a trade, most definitely he did but to me it left a sour taste in my mouth when he went to Vancouver the next year. To me, the bigger problem was the front office letting things get public. If I'm Sundin, I'm pissed about that, and pissed about the negative publicity I got for it. With a competent front office, they'd have approached a guy with full no-trade privately before the public got wind of the deal if there was any doubt whether he'd waive it. Not sure but was it Jeff Carter and a first? I remember Pittsburgh offering something too (Staal and a first?) Not sure but trying to remember what happen is giving me a headache. I have no idea of course, but that's a big return. Wow. Also, Patrick Roy has those things in his ears.... lol, you're funny today. No, he wasn't the first player to put himself above the team, but that hardly excuses him in my opinion. The McDonald's reference is dumb. Like I said, whether he deserves to be honoured is a matter of opinion. I can see the argument that he deserves it. Can you see the argument that there are others more deserving? Or does Sundin get bonus points because of the era he played in? We're not giving him bonus points, we're limiting how many negative points he gets for the era. If he was the best player on the team in a non-Ballard era, he might have a few cups and we wouldn't be having this discussion. I acknowledged that it counts negatively against him, so I can see your argument, but to suggest that it means others are more deserving is putting a significant amount of value on it. We can agree to disagree on that point. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 I guess I'll disclaim this by saying I'm a huge Sundin fan. He's probably my favourite player of all time. First: Nobody knows exactly what happened. The Leafs couldn't work out a trade with a player who had a no trade clause. That's all we know for sure. What we do know, is he was nothing but an absolute class act in his time with the Leafs. He represented the city and team at the highest level, on and off the ice, and I was very proud to have him as our captain. He chased some money in his final season. We have no idea what his financial situation was. It was his last chance at a paycheque in the league, and I'm not going to begrudge him that. It's not like the Leafs were aggressively persuing him anyway. In the end, players have to look out for themselves. Sometimes, a player's interests line up with a team's interests, and those guys become "good character guys". Sometimes, a player's interests don't line up with a team's interests, and those players become "Selfish assholes" Second: If Sundin is out, Sittler is definitely out too. He ripped the C off his jersey and walked out on the team because they weren't facilitating a trade that he demanded quickly enough. He was dealing with an incompetent management and coaching staff, but I suspect history won't be too kind to the people that Sundin was dealing with either. There's just no doubt in my mind that Sundin is one of the 10 greatest Maple Leafs of all time, taking everything into account, on the ice, and off ice. Leaving him off the list would be a slap in the face to him, as well as all of his fans (myself included) 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 re: trade rumours. The Jeff Carter and a first was the rumoured return for Tomas Kaberle at one opint. I don't think Sundin was ever rumoured to go to Philly. The deal that allegedly fell through was * I believe* Chris Higgins, Grabovski, and a 1st from Montreal. Sundin declines to be traded to Montreal from the Leafs: selfish *******. Gorges declines to be traded from montreal to the Leafs: hero. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Dusty Finish @GoddTill · 9m The best thing about the Leafs new Legends Row- we'll finally get to see Mats with some decent wingers 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Babying 613 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Second: If Sundin is out, Sittler is definitely out too. He ripped the C off his jersey and walked out on the team because they weren't facilitating a trade that he demanded quickly enough. He was dealing with an incompetent management and coaching staff, but I suspect history won't be too kind to the people that Sundin was dealing with either. Yes that is true about Sittler but time heals. It is only 8 years (or something like that) for Sundin. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 re: trade rumours. The Jeff Carter and a first was the rumoured return for Tomas Kaberle at one opint. I don't think Sundin was ever rumoured to go to Philly. The deal that allegedly fell through was * I believe* Chris Higgins, Grabovski, and a 1st from Montreal. Sundin declines to be traded to Montreal from the Leafs: selfish *******. Gorges declines to be traded from montreal to the Leafs: hero. I don't recall it being a trade with the Habs, but it could have been. As for the Gorges comparison...Gorges accepted a trade to another team shortly thereafter so the Habs acquired an asset for him. It's not like he prevented the Habs from getting something for him and then turned around and signed with another team. Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Sundin declines to be traded to Montreal from the Leafs: selfish *******. Gorges declines to be traded from montreal to the Leafs: hero. Good point, however.....Gorges came out publicly and said that he didnt want to play for the Leafs because of the rivalry. If Sundin had done that, and said "I refused the deal because I cant play FOR Toronto's biggest rival"....he actually would have gained points with me, not lost them. I'm just telling you what my opinion is on these matters, these things are very subjective. And I would agree that much of Sundins off ice activities was top notch too, at least from everything that I read. Link to post Share on other sites
gruven 530 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Good point, however.....Gorges came out publicly and said that he didnt want to play for the Leafs because of the rivalry. If Sundin had done that, and said "I refused the deal because I cant play FOR Toronto's biggest rival"....he actually would have gained points with me, not lost them. I'm just telling you what my opinion is on these matters, these things are very subjective. And I would agree that much of Sundins off ice activities was top notch too, at least from everything that I read. Gorges didn't want to play for Carlyle. Straight up. Link to post Share on other sites
gruven 530 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Wayne, Phil was watching for your son yesterday at DQ and was primed to say 'Hi Nathan', but when I talked to him at about 1 he hadn't seen him. Was he there? Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Can't blame him for that. (edit: in response to Gorges not wanting to play for Carlyle) Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Gorges didn't want to play for Carlyle. Straight up. But Carlyle is such a player's coach Link to post Share on other sites
Babying 613 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Wayne, Phil was watching for your son yesterday at DQ and was primed to say 'Hi Nathan', but when I talked to him at about 1 he hadn't seen him. Was he there? Yes he was one of the first ones in line. LOL. Nathan told me that Phil rolled his eyes when he saw him. Afterwards he went up to Barrie for Hockey Night in Barrie and did not get home until 9 pm. You have to understand something on my son, he is not embarrassed on anything because of his disability. He says it like it is. Link to post Share on other sites
gruven 530 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Yes he was one of the first ones in line. LOL. Nathan told me that Phil rolled his eyes when he saw him. Afterwards he went up to Barrie for Hockey Night in Barrie and did not get home until 9 pm. You have to understand something on my son, he is not embarrassed on anything because of his disability. He says it like it is. Yeah, I didn't explain that to Phil. All I told him was that even though Nathan is always with the autograph sellers, he keeps the autographs for himself and is just a huge fan. Phil had a different attitude about him then. Must have missed him in line... Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted August 19, 2014 Author Share Posted August 19, 2014 How about them apples. Leafs now have a guy running the analytics department. Kinda cool. Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Wow, all the smart twitter people are getting hired. love it. Link to post Share on other sites
gruven 530 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 And Lieweke is leaving to go run the Clippers Link to post Share on other sites
pezeveng 207 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 And Lieweke is leaving to go run the Clippers Someone told me in June that he was butting heads with the big guys up above that nobody see's. I laughed at him now I am gonna owe him $20 if he's gone by December! Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 How about them apples. Leafs now have a guy running the analytics department. Kinda cool. lol, Corsi schmorsi right Serge??? Hey MLSE, F**CK OFF and give me back my access to one of my fav sites. Dicks. Link to post Share on other sites
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