mrdannyg 274 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 It's not entirely the players, it's the agents. Don't forget that they take 15% of everything and they definitely want as much of their money as they can get right now in a suitcase.Can't really be 15%, can it? I thought 'standard' was something like 10%, but in case of professional athletes/movie stars, this was often divided between an entire firm or firms that might also act as business managers, PR, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Can't really be 15%, can it? I thought 'standard' was something like 10%, but in case of professional athletes/movie stars, this was often divided between an entire firm or firms that might also act as business managers, PR, etc.I'll look into it, for some reason 5% sticks in my mind. Link to post Share on other sites
ajs510 122 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Why is it so hard for people to get, Brian Burke believes that these contracts are "cheating" and he refuses to participate...I get it, but it's stupid. As soon as Detroit did this with Zetterburg and Datsyuk it was all over, the floodgates were open and until there's a rule change this is going to be the way the league deals with UFA contracts for big ticket players. If Brian Burke wants to be better than that, that's his choice for as long as he has an NHL job, but as long as his standpoint is such, he won't be able to build a contender. No UFA is going to sign a contract for less money and less term because he cares about not circumventing the salary cap that he and his players association didn't want in the first place. No player agent is going to allow his player to sign such a contract. If Burke wants to be better than that, fine, his choice for as long as he's a GM in the NHL. But he won't be the GM of a competing team. Link to post Share on other sites
Skeleton Jelly 2 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 3-4% is standard.Here is a link for some information and stuff. Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 If Brian Burke wants to be better than that, that's his choice for as long as he has an NHL job, but as long as his standpoint is such, he won't be able to build a contender.As a general statement, I disagree with this statement. Most Stanley cup teams are not built around major UFA signings. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted July 6, 2011 Author Share Posted July 6, 2011 I get it, but it's stupid. As soon as Detroit did this with Zetterburg and Datsyuk it was all over, the floodgates were open and until there's a rule change this is going to be the way the league deals with UFA contracts for big ticket players. If Brian Burke wants to be better than that, that's his choice for as long as he has an NHL job, but as long as his standpoint is such, he won't be able to build a contender. No UFA is going to sign a contract for less money and less term because he cares about not circumventing the salary cap that he and his players association didn't want in the first place. No player agent is going to allow his player to sign such a contract. If Burke wants to be better than that, fine, his choice for as long as he's a GM in the NHL. But he won't be the GM of a competing team.As Dubey said as much excited as Sabre fans are(and I am glad for you really) , Leino and Ehrhoff arent going to win you cups.As a matter of fact, Burke is doing things the right way and the Sabres arent...Look how its worked out for the Rangers. They havent done very well with all their high priced signings. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 And you are missing the point , the both are related..You cant circumvent the cap and sign Ehrhoff unless its a 10 year deal. Ehrhoff is receiving $18 million of his $40 Million in the first two years..To achieve this you have the circumvent the cap and sign him to a 10 year deal...He wont be playing in the NHL for 10 years...Why is it so hard for people to get, Brian Burke believes that these contracts are "cheating" and he refuses to participate...Or...A 10 year contract at $4 million per year is also a 10 year-$40 million contract.Burke is not saying he won't pay a player a 10 year-$40 million contract. He's saying he won't structure it in a way that he believes to be cap circumvention.Many players prefer front-loaded contracts so if Toronto offers $4 million each year for 10 years and another team front-loads the contract then the player will choose the front-loaded contract. Front-loading a contract just gives the players more money sooner and reduces the amount of money paid later on. It does not reduce the salary cap hit.Nobody said anything about Burke having a problem with contract length and your claim that a contract needs to be 10 years to be considered cap circumvention (under Burke's rules not the NHL's) is randomly ridiculous.For example, here's a random/made-up 34-year-old free agent.Here's a 5 year contract that Burke would not agree to based on what he has stated:year 1 - $5 million signing bonus, $2 million salaryyear 2 - $5 million signing bonus, $2 million salaryyear 3 - $2 million salaryyear 4 - $1.1 million salaryyear 5 - $1.1 million salarycap hit = $3.64 millionPeople do get it, Serge. We understand that Brian Burke (eg. you) believes these types of contracts to be "cheating." However, the NHL does not consider them "cheating" and Brian Burke is handicapping his team by playing by his own rules instead of the NHL's rules. Which, I believe, was my point. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted July 6, 2011 Author Share Posted July 6, 2011 Burke has also said he doesnt like the 10 year contracts to marginal players.He wont offer a 10 year contract to a Bryzgalov, Ehrhoff or even Richards..Now I believe if the opportunity came up and it was Stamkos MAYBE he would offer him a 10 year contract..Which makes sense as he will still be playing the majority of the contract in his prime.I totally get your point and i just dont agree with it..And I assure you these contracts wont be around anymore. You can spin it all you want but the reason you are front loading a deal is to give the player an out of early retirement. Do you think Brad Richards will play for 9 years in New York?FWIW your made up players contract is cap circumvention clearly within the current rules the NHL set out..There is a rule with respect to percentages and I believe it violates it. Link to post Share on other sites
SBriand 4 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 As Dubey said as much excited as Sabre fans are(and I am glad for you really) , Leino and Ehrhoff arent going to win you cups.As a matter of fact, Burke is doing things the right way and the Sabres arent...Look how its worked out for the Rangers. They havent done very well with all their high priced signings.Leino and Ehrhoff aren't the next Crosby and Lidstrom but they make an already playoff caliber team better which means their chances to win a cup might have increased. Doesn't mean they will win a cup but in my opinion they have a better chance than they did last year. They got there without Roy last year and if he stays healthy then you might actually really hate the Sabres because they will finish ahead of your Leafs in my opinion. It is your opinion that Burke is doing things the right way and the Sabres are doing it the wrong way. That is not a fact, it is your personal opinion. Using your logic why even play a season since you have decided the winners and losers? Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Burke has also said he doesnt like the 10 year contracts to marginal players.He wont offer a 10 year contract to a Bryzgalov, Ehrhoff or even Richards..Now I believe if the opportunity came up and it was Stamkos MAYBE he would offer him a 10 year contract..Which makes sense as he will still be playing the majority of the contract in his prime.I totally get your point and i just dont agree with it..And I assure you these contracts wont be around anymore. You can spin it all you want but the reason you are front loading a deal is to give the player an out of early retirement. Do you think Brad Richards will play for 9 years in New York?FWIW your made up players contract is cap circumvention clearly within the current rules the NHL set out..There is a rule with respect to percentages and I believe it violates it.Now, I'm pretty certain we disagree on the definition of a "marginal" player.Do I think Brad Richards will play for 9 years in New York? I think you and Brian Burke care much more than anyone in the Rangers' organization. Link to post Share on other sites
Babying 613 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Leino and Ehrhoff aren't the next Crosby and Lidstrom but they make an already playoff caliber team better which means their chances to win a cup might have increased. Doesn't mean they will win a cup but in my opinion they have a better chance than they did last year. They got there without Roy last year and if he stays healthy then you might actually really hate the Sabres because they will finish ahead of your Leafs in my opinion. It is your opinion that Burke is doing things the right way and the Sabres are doing it the wrong way. That is not a fact, it is your personal opinion. Using your logic why even play a season since you have decided the winners and losers?Watch out!!!!!A Leaf fan is here. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted July 6, 2011 Author Share Posted July 6, 2011 Leino and Ehrhoff aren't the next Crosby and Lidstrom but they make an already playoff caliber team better which means their chances to win a cup might have increased. Doesn't mean they will win a cup but in my opinion they have a better chance than they did last year. They got there without Roy last year and if he stays healthy then you might actually really hate the Sabres because they will finish ahead of your Leafs in my opinion. It is your opinion that Burke is doing things the right way and the Sabres are doing it the wrong way. That is not a fact, it is your personal opinion. Using your logic why even play a season since you have decided the winners and losers?Sure its my opinion.It is also my opinion the Sabres wont be better than the Leafs this year.I believe we have a much better defense which is deeper than the Sabres. Our offence maybe comparable, but we have the potential be a lot better.Obviously the Sabres have an edge in goal.The Sabres had only one player that scored more than 52 pts last year..There is no reason to think they will be significantly better on the offensive end..The $27 million man scored 19 goals last year..We will see how he does. Link to post Share on other sites
ajs510 122 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 It is also my opinion the Sabres wont be better than the Leafs this year.Can we please put a lot of money on this? Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted July 6, 2011 Author Share Posted July 6, 2011 Can we please put a lot of money on this?yes Link to post Share on other sites
ajs510 122 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 yesOk, what's the bet? Buffalo vs Toronto, total league points at the end of the season, straight up? I'm good with any friendly number, so anywhere from $0-$300. Link to post Share on other sites
Babying 613 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Can we please put a lot of money on this?Oh what the heck. I will do it for $20. Most points and min GP 82.Book? Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Oh what the heck. I will do it for $20. Most points and min GP 82.Book?lol Link to post Share on other sites
ajs510 122 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Oh what the heck. I will do it for $20. Most points and min GP 82.Book?Buffalo has more points than Toronto by the end of the regular season. Tie is a push. I'm reluctant to put a GP qualifier on it...but overconfidence in the Sabres is forcing my hand. ;)Booked for $20 Link to post Share on other sites
Babying 613 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Buffalo has more points than Toronto by the end of the regular season. Tie is a push. I'm reluctant to put a GP qualifier on it...but overconfidence in the Sabres is forcing my hand. ;)Booked for $20Okay booked. We will settle up in Vegas. Link to post Share on other sites
ajs510 122 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Okay booked. We will settle up in Vegas.Hells yes. Already looking forward to next year. 4 day trip this time! Link to post Share on other sites
SBriand 4 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Watch out!!!!!A Leaf fan is here.lol, yes but doesn't mean I can't see everything clearly.Sure its my opinion.It is also my opinion the Sabres wont be better than the Leafs this year.I believe we have a much better defense which is deeper than the Sabres. Our offence maybe comparable, but we have the potential be a lot better.Obviously the Sabres have an edge in goal.The Sabres had only one player that scored more than 52 pts last year..There is no reason to think they will be significantly better on the offensive end..The $27 million man scored 19 goals last year..We will see how he does.If it is your opinion than state it is instead of stating that is a "matter of fact". That is not the same as opinion. You would avoid a lot of confusion by staying away from posting the word fact, imo. ;)Leafs offense comparable to Sabres? Really? I give the edge to the Sabres on this one. Back to Lieno for one hot minute, I have watched him for years, he was a Wing, and I am confident in my opinion that he has not hit his ceiling yet and will continue to mature into a good top 6 guy. 20 goals will be no issue this year for him. I bet he hits 25 if he stays healthy.Oh what the heck. I will do it for $20. Most points and min GP 82.Book?I will! Link to post Share on other sites
Babying 613 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Hells yes. Already looking forward to next year. 4 day trip this time!Spoke with the wife, looking at a 3 dayer for me by myself. Link to post Share on other sites
Babying 613 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 I will!I thought you don't gamble? Are you still drinking? Link to post Share on other sites
SBriand 4 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Yeah I will be doing maybe a 2 days, 3 tops. And one of you will need to be my mother an make sure I stay somewhat lucid. Link to post Share on other sites
SBriand 4 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 I thought you don't gamble? Are you still drinking?I don't think this bet falls under the definition of gambling. Link to post Share on other sites
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