Official Toronto Maple Leafs Thread

[00Lenny 0]

I'd fully support a Burkie Masterton nomination. Particularly if you take into consideration his Olympic contributions as well. Losing a son is some of the worst adversity to endure, and an entirely understandable reason to step away from the game for an extended period of time (or even for good). I do believe he has shown and will continue to show tremendous commitment to his work in both the Olympics and NHL, which would probably qualify him for the award were he not in management.

[gruven 530]

Why do you think he is worthy?

Whether you like his personality or not, he certainly had all kinds of reason to walk away from the game for a period after the death of his son, and certainly from the olympics. Considering some of the reasons that have been given for Masterton awards, this certainly qualifies. You can't argue his contributions and dedication to hockey. He certainly has shown a mountain of perserverance in the past month. And sportsmanship? Well, I'm sure there's an argument somewhere. In reference to the leafs in particular, I find it hard to find a player even remotely as deserving..

[digitalmonkey 929]

Whether you like his personality or not, he certainly had all kinds of reason to walk away from the game for a period after the death of his son, and certainly from the olympics. Considering some of the reasons that have been given for Masterton awards, this certainly qualifies. You can't argue his contributions and dedication to hockey. He certainly has shown a mountain of perserverance in the past month. And sportsmanship? Well, I'm sure there's an argument somewhere. In reference to the leafs in particular, I find it hard to find a player even remotely as deserving..

I just find it a little weird that he gets mentioned because of the death of his son. Gainey lost a daughter last season and many a player have lost loved ones. But then again, Gainey and none of those players play in Toronto so it doesn't get beaten to death.

[gruven 530]

I just find it a little weird that he gets mentioned because of the death of his son. Gainey lost a daughter last season and many a player have lost loved ones. But then again, Gainey and none of those players play in Toronto so it doesn't get beaten to death.

Gainey got lots of respect for the loss of his daughter. But he stepped away from the game when it happened for a bit, and it didn't happen on the eve of the Olympics which he was managing as well. I'm certainly as far from a toronto booster as they get, but I think your toronto hate is clouding your vision on this one my friend...

[serge 904]

Gainey got lots of respect for the loss of his daughter. But he stepped away from the game when it happened for a bit, and it didn't happen on the eve of the Olympics which he was managing as well. I'm certainly as far from a toronto booster as they get, but I think your toronto hate is clouding your vision on this one my friend...

oh really??

[00Lenny 0]

Gotta keep in mind that the original suggestion also was "Burkie is a good candidate for the Masterton", and not "Burkie is a better candidate than Gainey was/is for the Masterton".

[digitalmonkey 929]

Gainey got lots of respect for the loss of his daughter. But he stepped away from the game when it happened for a bit, and it didn't happen on the eve of the Olympics which he was managing as well. I'm certainly as far from a toronto booster as they get, but I think your toronto hate is clouding your vision on this one my friend...

Burke stepped away also. I think putting this on my Toronto hate is a cop out. Also, Burke's work on the Olympics was finished well before the eve of the Olympics.

[digitalmonkey 929]

Gotta keep in mind that the original suggestion also was "Burkie is a good candidate for the Masterton", and not "Burkie is a better candidate than Gainey was/is for the Masterton".

I'm not arguing whether one is a better candidate or not. I'm just questioning the Burke for Masterton love because of the death of his son.

[gruven 530]

I'm not arguing whether one is a better candidate or not. I'm just questioning the Burke for Masterton love because of the death of his son.

So, in the description of the Masterton, where would burke fall short if he was eligible?

[digitalmonkey 929]

So, in the description of the Masterton, where would burke fall short if he was eligible?

I believe you said there was nobody more deserving. I think his sportsmanship is questionable. Does Kevin Lowe get a vote?

[gruven 530]

I believe you said there was nobody more deserving. I think his sportsmanship is questionable. Does Kevin Lowe get a vote?

Did Burke do something outside of the rules? In the criteria, it says 'best exemplifies', not 'perfectly exemplifies'. It's an imperfect sport. Highlighted below in the list of Masterton winners are the ones who's sportsmanship is more than questionable. IF a GM could get the award, Burke would certainly be as deserving as many of the previous winners...Season Winner Team Reasons for winning 1967–68 Provost, ClaudeClaude Provost Montreal Canadiens "Embodied the definition of perseverance and dedication to hockey" throughout his 15 year career.[2] 1968–69 Hampson, TedTed Hampson Oakland Seals Had his best statistical year on a recent expansion team.[3] 1969–70 Martin, PitPit Martin Chicago Black Hawks After denouncing his team at the end of the 1968–69 NHL season, Martin and his team came back with a first place, and Martin had 30 goals and 33 assists for 63 points.[4] 1970–71 Ratelle, JeanJean Ratelle New York Rangers A 20 year veteran, he won the trophy for a "lifelong dedication to strong, clean hockey".[5] 1971–72 Clarke, BobbyBobby Clarke Philadelphia Flyers Overcame diabetes to play in the NHL.[6] 1972–73 MacDonald, LowellLowell MacDonald Pittsburgh Penguins Overcame severe ligament and cartilage damage to his knee and scored 34 goals and 41 assists for 75 points during the 1972–73 NHL season[7] 1973–74 Richard, HenriHenri Richard Montreal Canadiens This honoured a career with 11 Stanley Cups.[8] 1974–75 Luce, DonDon Luce Buffalo Sabres Awarded for perseverance and dedication, after a 38-point increase in scoring from the previous season.[9] 1975–76 Gilbert, RodRod Gilbert New York Rangers Overcame a serious back injury early during his career.[10] 1976–77 Westfall, EdEd Westfall New York Islanders Awarded for being a good leader.[11] 1977–78 Goring, ButchButch Goring Los Angeles Kings Made the NHL despite his small overall stature and weight, and had consistently good seasons.[12] 1978–79 Savard, SergeSerge Savard Montreal Canadiens Awarded for "dedication to hockey", after he won his eighth Stanley Cup in eleven seasons.[13] 1979–80 MacAdam, AlAl MacAdam Minnesota North Stars Rewarded for his perseverance after scoring a career high 42 goals and 51 assists for 93 points.[14] 1980–81 Dunlop, BlakeBlake Dunlop St. Louis Blues Although he was a star in junior hockey, he only broke out during the 1980–81 NHL season, after being drafted during the 1973–74 NHL season, by scoring 20 goals and 67 assists for 87 points. It was awarded for perseverance.[15] 1981–82 Resch, GlennGlenn Resch Colorado Rockies Awarded for perseverance, as he gave his young team more confidence while he served as goaltender.[16] 1982–83 McDonald, LannyLanny McDonald Calgary Flames Presented for his dedication; he was traded around the league numerous times, and when he was traded to the Flames, he scored 66 goals and 32 assists for 98 points.[17] 1983–84 Park, BradBrad Park Detroit Red Wings Awarded for his dedication to hockey[18] 1984–85 Hedberg, AndersAnders Hedberg New York Rangers He was recognized for a dedicated career, and unlike many other winners, for an exceptional season as well.[19] 1985–86 Simmer, CharlieCharlie Simmer Boston Bruins Overcame serious ligament damage to his knee to score 60 points.[20] 1986–87 Jarvis, DougDoug Jarvis Hartford Whalers Awarded after he beat Garry Unger's record for consecutive games played, with 914 games.[21] 1987–88 Bourne, BobBob Bourne Los Angeles Kings Awarded for exemplifying the qualities of dedication and perseverance.[22] 1988–89 Kerr, TimTim Kerr Philadelphia Flyers He returned to score 48 goals and 40 assists for 88 points in 69 games after overcoming severe knee and shoulder injuries, as well as aseptic meningitis the season before.[23] 1989–90 Kluzak, GordGord Kluzak Boston Bruins Tried to overcome severe knee injuries, but after playing two games after his 10th knee operation, he retired.[24] 1990–91 Taylor, DaveDave Taylor Los Angeles Kings Played all his 17 seasons with the Kings, and was honored for his dedication.[25] 1991–92 Fitzpatrick, MarkMark Fitzpatrick New York Islanders Overcame eosinophilia myalgia syndrome, a potentially life-threatening disease, and returned to the NHL.[26] 1992–93 Lemieux, MarioMario Lemieux Pittsburgh Penguins Scored 69 goals and 91 assists for 160 points, despite missing 24 games because of Hodgkin's lymphoma[27] 1993–94 Neely, CamCam Neely Boston Bruins Awarded "to recognize his valiant efforts to return to NHL action after suffering career-threatening injuries"; however he retired after 1995–96 NHL season because of those injuries.[28] 1994–95 LaFontaine, PatPat LaFontaine Buffalo Sabres Overcame a series of serious head injuries.[29] 1995–96 Roberts, Gary Gary Roberts Calgary Flames Successfully recovered from possibly career-ending surgery to correct bone spurs and nerve damage[30] 1996–97 Granato, TonyTony Granato San Jose Sharks Overcame possibly career-ending brain injury sustained during 1995–96 NHL season to score 25 goals during the 1996–97 NHL season[31] 1997–98 McLennan, JamieJamie McLennan St. Louis Blues Overcame bacterial meningitis[32] 1998–99 Cullen, JohnJohn Cullen Tampa Bay Lightning Overcame non-Hodgkin lymphoma[33] 1999–2000 Daneyko, KenKen Daneyko New Jersey Devils Overcame alcoholism.[34] 2000–01 Graves, AdamAdam Graves New York Rangers Awarded for all-around dedication to hockey[35] 2001–02 Koivu, SakuSaku Koivu Montreal Canadiens Overcame non-Hodgkin lymphoma[36] 2002–03 Yzerman, SteveSteve Yzerman Detroit Red Wings Eventually overcame several health problems, but played only a small part of the 2002–03 NHL season[37] 2003–04 Berard, BryanBryan Berard Chicago Blackhawks Overcame an eye injury that rendered the eye legally blind.[38] 2004–05 zzz2004–05 NHL lockout;no winner - - 2005–06 Selanne, TeemuTeemu Selanne Mighty Ducks of Anaheim Overcame major knee surgery to score 90 points (40 goals and 50 assists)[39] 2006–07 Kessel, PhilPhil Kessel Boston Bruins Missed 12 games because of testicular cancer mid season.[40] 2007–08 Jason Blake Toronto Maple Leafs Was diagnosed with chronic myelogenous leukemia but still played a full 82-game season. 2008–09 Sullivan, SteveSteve Sullivan Nashville Predators Played 41 games this season after missing almost two years due to a fragmented disc in his back, and a strained groin

[mrdannyg 274]

Seems like the award really changed gears in 91. Everything before that looks stupid compared to everything after that.I think it is too early to say it about Burke. If he continues to 'perservere' as he has done so far, then he is certainly deserving.

[ajs510 122]

I like how Lanny MacDonald won the Masterson for getting traded a lot. Oh, the prestige.

[digitalmonkey 929]

Did Burke do something outside of the rules? In the criteria, it says 'best exemplifies', not 'perfectly exemplifies'. It's an imperfect sport. Highlighted below in the list of Masterton winners are the ones who's sportsmanship is more than questionable. IF a GM could get the award, Burke would certainly be as deserving as many of the previous winners...Season Winner Team Reasons for winning 1967–68 Provost, ClaudeClaude Provost Montreal Canadiens "Embodied the definition of perseverance and dedication to hockey" throughout his 15 year career.[2] 1968–69 Hampson, TedTed Hampson Oakland Seals Had his best statistical year on a recent expansion team.[3] 1969–70 Martin, PitPit Martin Chicago Black Hawks After denouncing his team at the end of the 1968–69 NHL season, Martin and his team came back with a first place, and Martin had 30 goals and 33 assists for 63 points.[4] 1970–71 Ratelle, JeanJean Ratelle New York Rangers A 20 year veteran, he won the trophy for a "lifelong dedication to strong, clean hockey".[5] 1971–72 Clarke, BobbyBobby Clarke Philadelphia Flyers Overcame diabetes to play in the NHL.[6] 1972–73 MacDonald, LowellLowell MacDonald Pittsburgh Penguins Overcame severe ligament and cartilage damage to his knee and scored 34 goals and 41 assists for 75 points during the 1972–73 NHL season[7] 1973–74 Richard, HenriHenri Richard Montreal Canadiens This honoured a career with 11 Stanley Cups.[8] 1974–75 Luce, DonDon Luce Buffalo Sabres Awarded for perseverance and dedication, after a 38-point increase in scoring from the previous season.[9] 1975–76 Gilbert, RodRod Gilbert New York Rangers Overcame a serious back injury early during his career.[10] 1976–77 Westfall, EdEd Westfall New York Islanders Awarded for being a good leader.[11] 1977–78 Goring, ButchButch Goring Los Angeles Kings Made the NHL despite his small overall stature and weight, and had consistently good seasons.[12] 1978–79 Savard, SergeSerge Savard Montreal Canadiens Awarded for "dedication to hockey", after he won his eighth Stanley Cup in eleven seasons.[13] 1979–80 MacAdam, AlAl MacAdam Minnesota North Stars Rewarded for his perseverance after scoring a career high 42 goals and 51 assists for 93 points.[14] 1980–81 Dunlop, BlakeBlake Dunlop St. Louis Blues Although he was a star in junior hockey, he only broke out during the 1980–81 NHL season, after being drafted during the 1973–74 NHL season, by scoring 20 goals and 67 assists for 87 points. It was awarded for perseverance.[15] 1981–82 Resch, GlennGlenn Resch Colorado Rockies Awarded for perseverance, as he gave his young team more confidence while he served as goaltender.[16] 1982–83 McDonald, LannyLanny McDonald Calgary Flames Presented for his dedication; he was traded around the league numerous times, and when he was traded to the Flames, he scored 66 goals and 32 assists for 98 points.[17] 1983–84 Park, BradBrad Park Detroit Red Wings Awarded for his dedication to hockey[18] 1984–85 Hedberg, AndersAnders Hedberg New York Rangers He was recognized for a dedicated career, and unlike many other winners, for an exceptional season as well.[19] 1985–86 Simmer, CharlieCharlie Simmer Boston Bruins Overcame serious ligament damage to his knee to score 60 points.[20] 1986–87 Jarvis, DougDoug Jarvis Hartford Whalers Awarded after he beat Garry Unger's record for consecutive games played, with 914 games.[21] 1987–88 Bourne, BobBob Bourne Los Angeles Kings Awarded for exemplifying the qualities of dedication and perseverance.[22] 1988–89 Kerr, TimTim Kerr Philadelphia Flyers He returned to score 48 goals and 40 assists for 88 points in 69 games after overcoming severe knee and shoulder injuries, as well as aseptic meningitis the season before.[23] 1989–90 Kluzak, GordGord Kluzak Boston Bruins Tried to overcome severe knee injuries, but after playing two games after his 10th knee operation, he retired.[24] 1990–91 Taylor, DaveDave Taylor Los Angeles Kings Played all his 17 seasons with the Kings, and was honored for his dedication.[25] 1991–92 Fitzpatrick, MarkMark Fitzpatrick New York Islanders Overcame eosinophilia myalgia syndrome, a potentially life-threatening disease, and returned to the NHL.[26] 1992–93 Lemieux, MarioMario Lemieux Pittsburgh Penguins Scored 69 goals and 91 assists for 160 points, despite missing 24 games because of Hodgkin's lymphoma[27] 1993–94 Neely, CamCam Neely Boston Bruins Awarded "to recognize his valiant efforts to return to NHL action after suffering career-threatening injuries"; however he retired after 1995–96 NHL season because of those injuries.[28] 1994–95 LaFontaine, PatPat LaFontaine Buffalo Sabres Overcame a series of serious head injuries.[29] 1995–96 Roberts, Gary Gary Roberts Calgary Flames Successfully recovered from possibly career-ending surgery to correct bone spurs and nerve damage[30] 1996–97 Granato, TonyTony Granato San Jose Sharks Overcame possibly career-ending brain injury sustained during 1995–96 NHL season to score 25 goals during the 1996–97 NHL season[31] 1997–98 McLennan, JamieJamie McLennan St. Louis Blues Overcame bacterial meningitis[32] 1998–99 Cullen, JohnJohn Cullen Tampa Bay Lightning Overcame non-Hodgkin lymphoma[33] 1999–2000 Daneyko, KenKen Daneyko New Jersey Devils Overcame alcoholism.[34] 2000–01 Graves, AdamAdam Graves New York Rangers Awarded for all-around dedication to hockey[35] 2001–02 Koivu, SakuSaku Koivu Montreal Canadiens Overcame non-Hodgkin lymphoma[36] 2002–03 Yzerman, SteveSteve Yzerman Detroit Red Wings Eventually overcame several health problems, but played only a small part of the 2002–03 NHL season[37] 2003–04 Berard, BryanBryan Berard Chicago Blackhawks Overcame an eye injury that rendered the eye legally blind.[38] 2004–05 zzz2004–05 NHL lockout;no winner - - 2005–06 Selanne, TeemuTeemu Selanne Mighty Ducks of Anaheim Overcame major knee surgery to score 90 points (40 goals and 50 assists)[39] 2006–07 Kessel, PhilPhil Kessel Boston Bruins Missed 12 games because of testicular cancer mid season.[40] 2007–08 Jason Blake Toronto Maple Leafs Was diagnosed with chronic myelogenous leukemia but still played a full 82-game season. 2008–09 Sullivan, SteveSteve Sullivan Nashville Predators Played 41 games this season after missing almost two years due to a fragmented disc in his back, and a strained groin

I'm not sure how highlighting 8 winners in the 40+ years supports your point.The fact is, if Burke's son hadn't died we wouldn't be having this conversation. His Olympic job was completed long before the tragedy. Is he deserving? Sure. Is he more deserving than anybody else, like you originally claimed? I don't think so.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

The fact is, if Burke's son hadn't died we wouldn't be having this conversation. His Olympic job was completed long before the tragedy. Is he deserving? Sure. Is he more deserving than anybody else, like you originally claimed? I don't think so.

Ok, now this is getting stupid.Do you see the winners above? Dont you get that there is a bit of a running theme? Its called adversity, and overcoming it. He had it happen to him, and he is dealing with while still showing dedication+sportsmanship in the game. Of course we are having this conversation because his son died. If Lemieux didnt get cancer, you think he had that award coming? How about Kessel and Blake?I dont know if he deserves the award, but man, do you argue everything that is pro-Leafs and assume that anything good for anyone in TO means its anti-Habs? The fact that his "job" was completed before the Olympics is an even greater point in his favour, IMO. He still showed up, and hes there supporting his staff and players. Give the guy some credit. (fwiw, I think your wrong that his job is completed. part of the job is being there now)I think you made a good point that maybe Gainey should have been considered as well, leave it at that.

[serge 904]

Ok, now this is getting stupid.Do you see the winners above? Dont you get that there is a bit of a running theme? Its called adversity, and overcoming it. He had it happen to him, and he is dealing with while still showing dedication+sportsmanship in the game. Of course we are having this conversation because his son died. If Lemieux didnt get cancer, you think he had that award coming? How about Kessel and Blake?I dont know if he deserves the award, but man, do you argue everything that is pro-Leafs and assume that anything good for anyone in TO means its anti-Habs? The fact that his "job" was completed before the Olympics is an even greater point in his favour, IMO. He still showed up, and hes there supporting his staff and players. Give the guy some credit. (fwiw, I think your wrong that his job is completed. part of the job is being there now)I think you made a good point that maybe Gainey should have been considered as well, leave it at that.

POTM=Post of the Month.Good post Arp..your posts are extremely insightful and well articulated..

[digitalmonkey 929]

Ok, now this is getting stupid.Do you see the winners above? Dont you get that there is a bit of a running theme? Its called adversity, and overcoming it. He had it happen to him, and he is dealing with while still showing dedication+sportsmanship in the game. Of course we are having this conversation because his son died. If Lemieux didnt get cancer, you think he had that award coming? How about Kessel and Blake?I dont know if he deserves the award, but man, do you argue everything that is pro-Leafs and assume that anything good for anyone in TO means its anti-Habs? The fact that his "job" was completed before the Olympics is an even greater point in his favour, IMO. He still showed up, and hes there supporting his staff and players. Give the guy some credit. (fwiw, I think your wrong that his job is completed. part of the job is being there now)I think you made a good point that maybe Gainey should have been considered as well, leave it at that.

Discussing this in the first place is probably stupid considering he'a not eligible to win. I'm not sure why you're turning this into an anti-leafs thing. I think your claim that he's still working by being there is a stretch. I'm quite certain there are players in the NHL right now who have lost loved ones. Taylor Pyatt comes to mind immediately. Has anyone even suggested him as a candidate...no, because he doesn't live or work in Toronto.

[gruven 530]

Discussing this in the first place is probably stupid considering he'a not eligible to win. I'm not sure why you're turning this into an anti-leafs thing. I think your claim that he's still working by being there is a stretch. I'm quite certain there are players in the NHL right now who have lost loved ones. Taylor Pyatt comes to mind immediately. Has anyone even suggested him as a candidate...no, because he doesn't live or work in Toronto.

I live in toronto, hence my reference to the Toronto Maple Leafs.... I believe that Pyatt was the Canucks nominee for the Masterson this year, and well deserving. I think, Dale, you got up on the wrong side of the bed today. Nothing wrong with a little healthy discussion, but this is just a lot of 'No he's not'.

[digitalmonkey 929]

I live in toronto, hence my reference to the Toronto Maple Leafs.... I believe that Pyatt was the Canucks nominee for the Masterson this year, and well deserving. I think, Dale, you got up on the wrong side of the bed today. Nothing wrong with a little healthy discussion, but this is just a lot of 'No he's not'.

It has nothing to do with getting up on the wrong side of the bed nor does it have anything to do with anti-leafs. I simply don't agree with you. A lot of 'No he's not'?....sure...also a lot of 'yes he is'.

[gruven 530]

It has nothing to do with getting up on the wrong side of the bed nor does it have anything to do with anti-leafs. I simply don't agree with you. A lot of 'No he's not'?....sure...also a lot of 'yes he is'.

OKay, then two simple questions:1) Why WOULDN'T he be deserving, if he was eligible?2) Who, on the leafs, would be MORE deserving?

[serge 904]

Discussing this in the first place is probably stupid considering he'a not eligible to win. I'm not sure why you're turning this into an anti-leafs thing. I think your claim that he's still working by being there is a stretch. I'm quite certain there are players in the NHL right now who have lost loved ones. Taylor Pyatt comes to mind immediately. Has anyone even suggested him as a candidate...no, because he doesn't live or work in Toronto.

The reason being, justifiably 95% of your comments when it involves the Leafs is an anti statement...Not that you arent entitled to your opinions.Chris brought up an interesting topic for discussion and he backed up his comments with facts.With all due respect to the players and management who have lost a loved one, Burke's situation is a bit different.A lot of people could of just said you know what screw the Olympics i cant handle this pressure and i need time to grieve.I dont think its a stretch to say that Burke has one of the most high profile and stressful jobs in all of hockey. To compound that he is responsible for running the Olympic team...He could of just said( and justifiably no one would of given him any grief) i need time away from the game and just disappeared for a while.However his dedication and perseverance to the game showed us when a day after the funeral he was in front of microphones answering questions. A few days later he was doing an interview on CTV in front of millions of viewers , talking about the HORRIBLE ordeal that he has had to go through.Yes a lot of people have suffered devastating life altering tragedies, a great example is the death of the Canadian figure skating's mom, which was terrible.We never brought up Gainey into the discussion, you did for some reason..Gainey has suffered through tremendous pain that no one should have to go through, however we werent talking about him at all.

[serge 904]

OKay, then two simple questions:1) Why WOULDN'T he be deserving, if he was eligible?2) Who, on the leafs, would be MORE deserving?

a case could be made for Gustavvson...Overcoming a couple of scary heart procedures.or a real good case could be made for me.Yes me, ultra fan who has had to endure years, decades of losing and constant ridicule from outsiders.My perseverance and dedication to my team should be acknowledged.

[Jason12 0]

OKay, then two simple questions:1) Why WOULDN'T he be deserving, if he was eligible?2) Who, on the leafs, would be MORE deserving?

Not to mention im sure Burke is/will be fairly active with the trade deadline coming up. Would be nice to see him win but I doubt it happens. If a GM could win than why not refs, coaches, etc...having said that I dont see why he couldnt be the Leafs representative this year.

[digitalmonkey 929]

OKay, then two simple questions:1) Why WOULDN'T he be deserving, if he was eligible?2) Who, on the leafs, would be MORE deserving?

I think Burke's surliness toward the media and his comments toward Kevin Lowe are far from sportsmanlike. I'm not familiar with most of the personal issues the players have but from what I do know, Gustafsson would be a good choice.

[gruven 530]

I think Burke's surliness toward the media and his comments toward Kevin Lowe are far from sportsmanlike. I'm not familiar with most of the personal issues the players have but from what I do know, Gustafsson would be a good choice.

Surliness towards the media really isn't related to sportsmanship in any way, is it? As for the Lowe incident, sure, you could make that point. But, on the other hand, if you have to go five years back to find an episode where a hockey person popped off at the mouth towards another hockey person, then I think that might put Burke in the TOP five percent for sportsmanship....