Official Toronto Maple Leafs Thread

[digitalmonkey 929]

Here's a quiz for you, Daniel:

 

http://www.lovethatmax.com/2013/03/dont-use-the-word-retard-or-retarded.html?m=1

[serge 904]

Daniel makes good point however some words like retard actually do hurt.

 

If that's s the case Daniel is it ok to call someone a ni**** or a fa*?

 

I used to use the word to until I realized how hurtful it can be.

 

Now get this out of here. This thread is for gods team.

[gruven 530]

thanks Danny, thanks Zach. Agree with both of you wholeheartedly.

I also agree wholeheartedly. And I used to use the word a lot. I wish I could have corrected that sooner.

[mrdannyg 274]

Nothing anyone calls you, no word choice, no phrase, no judgement can cause any hurt or pain. Only you, the receiver can give those words that power. There isn't anything anyone can say to me, or you, that will cause that pain, it's only how you perceive it. Replacing a word like retard to dimwit, idiot, dummy, etc. is semantics in the sense that the perceived insult is in the eye of the beholder.

 

No one in the world has the power to cause you emotional pain with words. No one. Only you give it that power based on your perception of what that means. For example, if I called you a blue elephant, would that pierce at all? Likely not. However, if I said something closer to home, something that maybe you believe to be partly true, you may experience pain, but it's not the words that caused it, it's your perception that they may be true.

 

You're wrong, but you also have the emotional maturity of an 8-year old (to match your sense of humour), so I'm guessing sympathy and empathy are about 3 steps away.

 

Good job blaming the victims though, that's always a strategy that holds up well under scrutiny.

 

Wow, just read it again and the last sentence really takes your incredible victim-blaming to another level. I'd be impressed if it wasn't so hateful and so categorically untrue to anyone who has had to overcome anything in their life, or has ever had to experience being different in a meaningful way.

 

Seriously, wow. I had more typed out, but you genuinely do have the maturity and emotional intelligence of a child if that's what you believe. Maybe you should step away from the poker table and your fanboys and have a real conversation with a real person sometime. You've got plenty in the AHL, including several with personal experience with that word. You might find it more rewarding to spend some time asking them about that word (or about making 'locker room jokes' to a near-stranger in a public setting, or wearing blackface, or your misogynistic comment in the AHL thread, etc) then being the rich kid who makes the rules in his fantasy league because he uses a negligible portion of his wealth to buy the ability to make the rules.

 

I'm sure you'll laugh this off. And maybe you should, since I'm a whiny stranger on your own goddamn message board. But before you call me a dick cheese or something similarly brilliant, read those last couple settings. Maybe you are a bit of a sociopath who isn't effected by the mean words of others. I'm kind of like that too. And it's not necessarily a bad thing. Hey, it might explain why you, who's probably been on the receiving end of more nasty tweets, comments, etc than the rest of us put together has been able to let them roll off you (as you should) despite being targeted plenty as a public figure. But that's not true of everyone, and it's not true of most. And it's especially not true when those words often come with actions. That may not happen with dorky internet comments, but I promise it does for people with disabilities, minorities, women, and other people targeted by hate, and that's why a simple joke can be offensive and hurtful.

[serge 904]

For **** sakes. Why in my Leaf thread?

 

Moderator!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gruven 530]

Future captain maybe? I don't know how vocal he is, but I'd say he's their best. He seems to always make the smart decisions.

Hmm, good question, haven't really thought about it since he's so young. But... yeah. I think he'd make a helluva captain. His demeanour is always calm, but he's not afraid to speak up. Very much a quiet confidence. And, despite being young, he's definitely respected by his teammates. Now that I think about it, I would be surprised not to see him wearing a 'C' or 'A' within the next three years. BTW, it's hard to believe, but did you realize that Kessel is the longest tenured leaf now? That's some serious turnover.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

For **** sakes. Why in my Leaf thread?

 

Moderator!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

This is the point where you get offended here huh? Nice

[serge 904]

 

 

This is the point where you get offended here huh? Nice

 

Dude relax. I made a joke. A funny.

 

Fwiw. I disagreed with Daniel a 100 percent.

 

But danny g attack is unnecessary

[gruven 530]

Wait. serge, would that be like being born in Canada and rooting for the U.S. in the Olympics?

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

 

 

Dude relax. I made a joke. A funny.

 

Fwiw. I disagreed with Daniel a 100 percent.

 

But danny g attack is unnecessary

 

OK dude I'll relax. You make a good point.lots of good points here. So many good points.

[serge 904]

Wait. serge, would that be like being born in Canada and rooting for the U.S. in the Olympics?

 

Ya. Except I was neither born in Canada or root for the U.S. in the Olympics.

 

I support the TML.

[serge 904]

 

 

OK dude I'll relax. You make a good point.lots of good points here. So many good points.

 

..

[digitalmonkey 929]

I think our monthly cycles have aligned.

[serge 904]

I think our monthly cycles have aligned.

 

We need a good Serge vs Dale e war to deflect.

 

But I got nothing. Sorry

[Babying 613]

I know you wont care, but I find the word offensive too. Quite hurtful to some of us actually, I truly hope for your sake you will never understand why.

 

http://www.nytimes.c...wrong.html?_r=0

I do agree and I am the last person who doesn't care with what other people say about me (I have heard racial slurs at me when growing up).

 

However when it is directed towards your own kids, it does make me very angry. Those words and others were directed at my son for many years in primary school. He was also bullied because of his disability. Kids are cruel.

[serge 904]

I do agree and I am the last person who doesn't care with what other people say about me (I have heard racial slurs at me when growing up).

 

However when it is directed towards your own kids, it does make me very angry. Those words and others were directed at my son for many years in primary school. He was also bullied because of his disability. Kids are cruel.

 

Kids are cruel because they learn from their parents. Kids don't grow up racist. It's a learned thing. IMO.

 

I think over the years the "gay" word has diminished , which is great. I know in high school we used it all the time. But the word "retard" which I believe is much worse and affects way more people is more hurtful and is still very active in vocabulary at schools.

 

Most people don't realize and they need to be educated. It's hurtful , demeaning and just outright cruel.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

I do agree and I am the last person who doesn't care with what other people say about me (I have heard racial slurs at me when growing up).

 

However when it is directed towards your own kids, it does make me very angry. Those words and others were directed at my son for many years in primary school. He was also bullied because of his disability. Kids are cruel.

 

That's the biggest difference with the use of retarded. Most of us don't give a shit what is said about us but when it affects kids it's different.

 

Daniel said that the words only have the ability to hurt if we let them but that isn't true of vulnerable kids or adults with developmental handicaps. A kid knows that certain words hurt and have been used against them.

 

If I want to say that something or someone is stupid I don't say they are retarded I say they are stupid or dumb.

 

There is too much political correctness and I don't have a lot of time for faux outrage at a lot of it but there are some words that hurt those who might not be equipped to deal with them and we should consider that when we use them.

[mrdannyg 274]

For **** sakes. Why in my Leaf thread?

 

Moderator!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Really? The Leafs thread is now the wrong place for angry arguments about things that probably won't change, and for people taking things overly personally?

 

Dude relax. I made a joke. A funny.

 

Fwiw. I disagreed with Daniel a 100 percent.

 

But danny g attack is unnecessary

 

Was it? I didn't like my tone to be honest, but his post is so inflammatory and wrong that I feel the need to add an insult to the explanation, both for context (to demonstrate HOW wrong, and HOW inflammatory), and because he has happily ignored the thoughtful explanatory posts of others.

 

Kids are cruel because they learn from their parents. Kids don't grow up racist. It's a learned thing. IMO.

 

I think over the years the "gay" word has diminished , which is great. I know in high school we used it all the time. But the word "retard" which I believe is much worse and affects way more people is more hurtful and is still very active in vocabulary at schools.

 

Most people don't realize and they need to be educated. It's hurtful , demeaning and just outright cruel.

 

You're post is absolutely correct, and I bet Wayne would agree. Kids are cruel, but only if they learn it, and only if they think it is acceptable. I remember in school using "gay" all the time, but not really using "retard" even though you heard it, because enough people pointed out that it was more than just a throwaway insult. Now I don't use words like that, and so my kid (hopefully) won't. And when you take away the weapons of bullies, you help to disarm them, especially if the bullied keep hearing the same things repeated.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

 

I had this thought process of blasting into you, getting all mad and belligerent, and then I realized, whats the point. I don't know you, I don't really know what makes you tick, and at the end of the day, it really won't matter.

 

 

Its too bad you chose not to ask why its hurtful, merely to preach why it should not be. To me that's the sign of someone who has their own way of thinking, maybe selfish+conceited and not really a person capable of much empathy. I could be wrong on that, because again, I don't know you and I am just making assumptions.

 

The only things that truly bother me is that....

 

1. You don't recognize to whom the words are most hurtful, as Wayne said, not to us adults but to kids with disabilities. Sometimes its not about just you and I, we need to set the tone for others. I think you may learn that someday if you are ever blessed with a child.

 

2. You are a public figure with the ability to affect change.

 

This is the one that really gets me. Honestly, if you were just another person here, I would have told you you're an idiot, and I would have walked on. But the fact you are who you are, and this society has deemed you to have these powers, makes me wish I could convince you how words do hurt, and how your actions do matter, and not because of someone like me, but because of those in our world who need all the compassion and love we can give them. What you say, and how you say it, for some incredible reason does set an example for others. We all know its true.

Setting the tone for kids to grow up mocking each other, by teaching them that words don't hurt, is just a horrendous way to use what has been bestowed upon you, in my humble opinion.

Its not much different than the father that uses homophobic, racist words at home in front of his kids.

 

I hope that gives you just a moment of pause.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

dp

[Babying 613]

Oh and since you don't know Daniel, I have a son who was diagnosed with Autism.

Its the hardest thing I have ever gone thru in my life, and he is at a point where he is merely just a little behind kids his age. Others with his diagnosis cannot talk or understand beyond a very low level. He has worked very very hard to get to where he is, and he is the poster child for what the right therapy can do, I am very blessed to have him and he has taught me more than any books or schools ever will.

Me too

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

I also agree wholeheartedly. And I used to use the word a lot. I wish I could have corrected that sooner.

 

I used to use the word a lot too. I still find it coming up in my thought process to describe situations, and I have to adjust my words.

 

No sense pretending I'm better than others, I was as guilty as anyone until I realized what I was going. I have to work at it just like anyone else.

[serge 904]

I doubt anything that happens will change the Carlyle haters. But if they lose last night they would be all over him for scratching Gardiner or starting Reimer.

 

The fact is the defence has played well. He hates changing a winning formula.

 

@mirtle: Toronto controlled play so well for a lot of last night's game that it's hard to imagine they shake up the D. I guess Rielly could sit.

 

From Mirtle. Btw he is now the Analytics guy at. TSN

 

They are playing like a good 3 line team. He still can't seem to find minutes for the 4 th line

 

Btw this whole Gardiner thing is moot. It's almost impossible for a team to have its top 7-8 dman healthy all year.

 

I love to see Gardiner in there too, and we will soon.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

You're wrong, but you also have the emotional maturity of an 8-year old (to match your sense of humour), so I'm guessing sympathy and empathy are about 3 steps away.

 

Good job blaming the victims though, that's always a strategy that holds up well under scrutiny.

 

Wow, just read it again and the last sentence really takes your incredible victim-blaming to another level. I'd be impressed if it wasn't so hateful and so categorically untrue to anyone who has had to overcome anything in their life, or has ever had to experience being different in a meaningful way.

 

Seriously, wow. I had more typed out, but you genuinely do have the maturity and emotional intelligence of a child if that's what you believe. Maybe you should step away from the poker table and your fanboys and have a real conversation with a real person sometime. You've got plenty in the AHL, including several with personal experience with that word. You might find it more rewarding to spend some time asking them about that word (or about making 'locker room jokes' to a near-stranger in a public setting, or wearing blackface, or your misogynistic comment in the AHL thread, etc) then being the rich kid who makes the rules in his fantasy league because he uses a negligible portion of his wealth to buy the ability to make the rules.

 

I'm sure you'll laugh this off. And maybe you should, since I'm a whiny stranger on your own goddamn message board. But before you call me a dick cheese or something similarly brilliant, read those last couple settings. Maybe you are a bit of a sociopath who isn't effected by the mean words of others. I'm kind of like that too. And it's not necessarily a bad thing. Hey, it might explain why you, who's probably been on the receiving end of more nasty tweets, comments, etc than the rest of us put together has been able to let them roll off you (as you should) despite being targeted plenty as a public figure. But that's not true of everyone, and it's not true of most. And it's especially not true when those words often come with actions. That may not happen with dorky internet comments, but I promise it does for people with disabilities, minorities, women, and other people targeted by hate, and that's why a simple joke can be offensive and hurtful.

 

First of all, thank you for the feedback. One thing I've always respected is a straight shooter. Having said that, I want to clarify one thing specifically as it may not have been as clear as it could be. I'm not saying people don't feel hurt as a result of words. Of course, this is human nature. The point I was making was that it isn't the words themselves that causes the pain, it's the meaning we give those words that causes whatever emotion it causes.

 

A personal example, if someone called me a cheap, dishonest, pushover, that would be akin to calling me a blue frog. It would hold no meaning to me because I know that none of it is true. Now, if you said something like I was showing up as arrogant, condescending, and judgmental, those are things that may sink in because I know that in my 40 years on this Earth I have shown up that way from time to time. So if I got that feedback, it would make me ponder.

 

The key distinction is that it's all about how "I" am perceiving those words, and not the words themselves. I was not trying to say that it's OK to call people names because they shouldn't let it hurt them. We are human, and our feelings are going to get hurt throughout our lives. I think the power lies in knowing that we own our own power and no one can "make" you sad, you choose that. No one "makes" you angry, you get angry because of how you perceive a situation.

 

I'm doing the opposite of victim bashing. I'm empowering the victim to see that he doesn't have to be one, no matter what anyone says or does to them.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

I had this thought process of blasting into you, getting all mad and belligerent, and then I realized, whats the point. I don't know you, I don't really know what makes you tick, and at the end of the day, it really won't matter.

 

 

Its too bad you chose not to ask why its hurtful, merely to preach why it should not be. To me that's the sign of someone who has their own way of thinking, maybe selfish+conceited and not really a person capable of much empathy. I could be wrong on that, because again, I don't know you and I am just making assumptions.

 

The only things that truly bother me is that....

 

1. You don't recognize to whom the words are most hurtful, as Wayne said, not to us adults but to kids with disabilities. Sometimes its not about just you and I, we need to set the tone for others. I think you may learn that someday if you are ever blessed with a child.

 

2. You are a public figure with the ability to affect change.

 

This is the one that really gets me. Honestly, if you were just another person here, I would have told you you're an idiot, and I would have walked on. But the fact you are who you are, and this society has deemed you to have these powers, makes me wish I could convince you how words do hurt, and how your actions do matter, and not because of someone like me, but because of those in our world who need all the compassion and love we can give them. What you say, and how you say it, for some incredible reason does set an example for others. We all know its true.

Setting the tone for kids to grow up mocking each other, by teaching them that words don't hurt, is just a horrendous way to use what has been bestowed upon you, in my humble opinion.

Its not much different than the father that uses homophobic, racist words at home in front of his kids.

 

I hope that gives you just a moment of pause.

 

We agree on much of what you said. I think its super important to empower children, help them understand empathy and compassion. I think calling a child a retard, stupid, dumb, an idiot, or what have you, are all bad ideas and I wouldn't do that. I've never called a kid that, and I wouldn't. Some people call the decisions Carlyle makes dumb, stupid, foolish, or moronic. If you are going to stand in such a place that the word retarded offends, then I would assume that you would also stand that calling a rule dumb, a coaches decision moronic, or a trade foolish, isn't something anyone should be doing. There is a line somewhere. If I offended you personally, I apologize for creating that and I stand responsible. That was not my intent.

 

There is a line, my concern is often the vagueness of where it lies since everyone's line is drawn at a different point. For me personally, if someone called my son retarded, moronic, or idiotic, I would be equally bothered by any of those terms. For me personally, one would not hold more weight than the other. Obviously for some, the word retarded is that line. For others the line may be even more narrow. The word dumb may be there line. I'm obviously not a big proponent of being overly PC. or even PC at all, but I am aware that many are. I find some of it extremely hypocritical, but that's just my perception.

 

If I saw Carlyle make a bad move, I may say, "That was retarded." For me, that's not remotely the same thing as telling a kid who had a bad shift that he played like a retard. If I saw a coach yell at my kid after a bad play, whether he said that was retarded, or that was dumb, I would perceive the intent no differently.