Official Toronto Maple Leafs Thread

[serge 904]

With all the losses, with all the doom and gloom and with all the bad news, the Leafs are still only 3 pts out of a playoff spot.Lots of time to turn this around

[gruven 530]

He did mix up the lines thoughKulemin was demoted to the 4th line..This btw is the stupidest thing ever...You arent scoring so we will put you with less talented players and give you less ice time..

Yes, I agree. It's stupid. It was something that Scotty Bowman did anytime his team wasn't responding, and we all know he's not smart enough to carry Ron Wilson's jock....

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

He did mix up the lines thoughKulemin was demoted to the 4th line..This btw is the stupidest thing ever...You arent scoring so we will put you with less talented players and give you less ice time..

To be fair, I feel like they gave him every opportunity, for months and months. I know what you mean by expecting him to score with less ice time+talent around him, but I think its more about having given him ample opportunity to produce already, and him not being able to do it. That change was a long time coming, he hasnt scored like a top 6 guy all year.

[pezeveng 207]

As I said last week this trade deadline talk has the players all messed up. I knew they were going to lose all 3 games this week they will start winning once the deadline is done.5 game winning streak coming up..

[Zach6668 513]

That's the lamest excuse ever.

[pezeveng 207]

That's the lamest excuse ever.

No excuse that comes from years of gambling where I see things differently. At the end of the day the Leafs making the playoffs would be nice for the city but really I won't lose sleep over it. I just find the players are not playing with a loose attitude anymore which makes a young team successful.These guys are young and are not good with the distraction of the trade deadline, it may be a combination of things I think they will start playing better now that they are the hunter rather than the prey.

[Zach6668 513]

Ok, you can say that they're a young team, youngest in the league, I think, and maybe their inexperience around this time of year is leading to their poor play, but you can't just blame the deadline, IMHO. I mean, every single team has to deal with the deadline. Every team.Blame it on their youth, or the way the coaching staff has tried to help them address that uncertainty, I suppose.Right now, they just look beyond horrible, which is strange, because when they played the Pens in those back to backs, I said they were a lock because they looked so good.Right now, I don't see any way they make it. Losing to Washington was an absolute disaster.It's too bad, I'm rooting for them, and the Sens, and the Jets to all make it.

[serge 904]

Ok, you can say that they're a young team, youngest in the league, I think, and maybe their inexperience around this time of year is leading to their poor play, but you can't just blame the deadline, IMHO. I mean, every single team has to deal with the deadline. Every team.Blame it on their youth, or the way the coaching staff has tried to help them address that uncertainty, I suppose.Right now, they just look beyond horrible, which is strange, because when they played the Pens in those back to backs, I said they were a lock because they looked so good.Right now, I don't see any way they make it. Losing to Washington was an absolute disaster.It's too bad, I'm rooting for them, and the Sens, and the Jets to all make it.

I will reiterate, not EVERY team has to deal with the deadline like the Leafs do..Only one team has to deal with one of the most closely watched and scrutinized in professional sports.In hockey there is probably only one other team that comes close to what the Toronto players do..Montreal is probably just as bad if not worse, they have other issues with the language bull crap

[Zach6668 513]

I will reiterate, not EVERY team has to deal with the deadline like the Leafs do..Only one team has to deal with one of the most closely watched and scrutinized in professional sports.In hockey there is probably only one other team that comes close to what the Toronto players do..Montreal is probably just as bad if not worse, they have other issues with the language bull crap

lol, I read the first paragraph, then hit reply and was going to ask if you were referring to Montreal, but then you said they were probably worse, and yeah, agree.Yeah, so they get scrutinized in the media. They don't need to follow it. They don't need to watch Sportscenter every day. Frankly, if they can't handle the pressure, they deserve to play poorly and they deserve to lose, IMHO.Again, rooting for them, but I don't like that they are allegedly this thin-skinned.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

lol, I read the first paragraph, then hit reply and was going to ask if you were referring to Montreal, but then you said they were probably worse, and yeah, agree.Yeah, so they get scrutinized in the media. They don't need to follow it. They don't need to watch Sportscenter every day. Frankly, if they can't handle the pressure, they deserve to play poorly and they deserve to lose, IMHO.Again, rooting for them, but I don't like that they are allegedly this thin-skinned.

Like you, Im also rooting for them to make it. But, your either good enough to make it in, or you have a bunch of excuses. I'm sick and tired of all the reasons why they should be in, but aren't. How about, just not good enough, top to bottom of the organization, whether its management, coaching and/or the players. As a whole, just not good enough.But like Serge said, still lots of time to right the ship.

[gruven 530]

Like you, Im also rooting for them to make it. But, your either good enough to make it in, or you have a bunch of excuses. I'm sick and tired of all the reasons why they should be in, but aren't. How about, just not good enough, top to bottom of the organization, whether its management, coaching and/or the players. As a whole, just not good enough.But like Serge said, still lots of time to right the ship.

There are still 20 games left in the season. Lots can change. The concern is that this team has looked minor league for the past two weeks. They're definitely better than they've shown, but they have to do something to snap out of it.

[mrdannyg 274]

So if the Caps see what the Leafs are doing and alter their lines or strategy to counter, then the Leafs should just continue along as is? Once the other team makes changes to counter your "optimal lines/strategies" then it only makes sense for you to also change something. No?

That is a fair point. If the caps do something different/unexpected, then the leafs coaching should be open to change as well to improve the matchup.

When your lines aren't doing anything, then yes, every team should mix up their lines. When what you're doing isn't working, then trying something else can't hurt. You're right, you always have optimal lines, but sometimes you need to shake those up temporarily in order to get people going. It's not always about skill, sometimes it's about perspective and motivation...

I agree. Losing a couple periods of hockey though is not a sufficient sample. Not even close. To suggest it is bad coaching not to change your lines after getting down 4-0 in one game is absolutely ridiculous. The only benefit is to 'shake things up' as you say, which is not an invalid point, but also ridiculous to say that getting down in one game requires shaking things up every time.Now, if you wanted to say that, with the Leafs playing poorly for several games, then getting down 4-0 against Washington should've been Wilson's trigger, then that is fine, but to say he's coaching poorly because he didn't use your preferred motivational tool when you considered appropriate is...well, there's a fine line between journalism, opinion, and implying that you could do someone else's (very difficult) job better than they could. I think you crossed that line. Kind of like I'm doing now, as it pertains to your job p.s. Scotty Bowman won 9 Stanley Cups as a coach, 3 more as a member of the front office. wow.

[gruven 530]

That is a fair point. If the caps do something different/unexpected, then the leafs coaching should be open to change as well to improve the matchup.I agree. Losing a couple periods of hockey though is not a sufficient sample. Not even close. To suggest it is bad coaching not to change your lines after getting down 4-0 in one game is absolutely ridiculous. The only benefit is to 'shake things up' as you say, which is not an invalid point, but also ridiculous to say that getting down in one game requires shaking things up every time.Now, if you wanted to say that, with the Leafs playing poorly for several games, then getting down 4-0 against Washington should've been Wilson's trigger, then that is fine, but to say he's coaching poorly because he didn't use your preferred motivational tool when you considered appropriate is...well, there's a fine line between journalism, opinion, and implying that you could do someone else's (very difficult) job better than they could. I think you crossed that line. Kind of like I'm doing now, as it pertains to your job p.s. Scotty Bowman won 9 Stanley Cups as a coach, 3 more as a member of the front office. wow.

Now you're into coaching styles.... and I agree, it becomes a decision that's different for everyone. Some coaches have very short leashes for goalies, others are never pulling their tender. Some coaches will shift players around throughout the game, whether or not they are winning or losing that particular game, other coaches set their lineup in September, and may not change it (short of injury) for the whole year. I don't know what's right or wrong, and of course it's just my opinion. However, I do know a little more about what's going on inside that dressing room than some people might, and shaking up lines is long overdue, and in fact, has been requested by players. But RW is a genious, and everything he's been doing so far has worked great......

[fryer98 30]

Because of the poop factor or the fact that there is a tie on my neck?

It actually had nothing to do with the comment being at you, I just loved the comment and can't wait to use it myself.

[mrdannyg 274]

Now you're into coaching styles.... and I agree, it becomes a decision that's different for everyone. Some coaches have very short leashes for goalies, others are never pulling their tender. Some coaches will shift players around throughout the game, whether or not they are winning or losing that particular game, other coaches set their lineup in September, and may not change it (short of injury) for the whole year. I don't know what's right or wrong, and of course it's just my opinion. However, I do know a little more about what's going on inside that dressing room than some people might, and shaking up lines is long overdue, and in fact, has been requested by players. But RW is a genious, and everything he's been doing so far has worked great......

I took issue with the implication it should happen because of that one game. But given the way they've been playing the last couple weeks, I certainly won't argue that some changes seem appropriate. And of course, if players are asking for changes, I'd generally be inclined to give it to them!

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

I don't think Ron Wilson is doing a good job as the coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

[mrdannyg 274]

The media makes me think that Ron Wilson is not doing a good job as the coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs because I have no ability form my own thoughts.

Burkie FYP

[gruven 530]

Burke saying now that the leafs will not be making a deal today...

[pezeveng 207]

I rarely vent but here it goes.My problem with the Leafs is this, Kadri and Schenn were the Leafs 2 highest draft picks since 1989 when we had the 3rd overall pick (Scott Thorton). These 2 picks 7th and 5th overall are never sure shots but they will be kids with a lot of talent or else why would they be drafted so high.So in the last 21 years the Leafs only had 2 picks better than 7th overall and Brian Burke drafted both these kids. Burke drafting them and Wilson needs to develop them. Instead he has given both these guys major psychological issues. The teams 2 studs are going to be duds not because of them but because of how Wilson treats them.Kadri being called up and down like a yo yo must have him questioning his ability and Schenn knowing his boss hates him and feeling he might get benched at any given time has him playing scared which causes mistakes.Wilson and his techniques just don't work with this bunch of guys, last week after that horrible game against NJ where Gustavsson allowed a few bad goals the kid knew he's going to be benched next few games. This just shows Gustavsson that you are the reason we lost (which was obvious) so you will not play. A great coach that understands humans are humans would say listen you didn't have your A game and we lost but I know you can win the next game for us.I guarantee you that if he started Gustavsson against SJ all the players would have been more charged up and he would have had a great game. Give the team a reason to think they are good, Wilson has them walking on eggshells and scared to play a free wheeling fast game like they were when they were winning.This team is good, they are fast and young which works in todays NHL. Wilson is going to make Burke look like a fool with his draft picks because he treats these players like crap every time they mess up.Schenn is a good d man not a 1-2 but he is NHL material, Kadri is very creative and should be in the NHL.Most of you have watched 30 for 30 the Marcus Dupree one kind of reminds me where tough love coaching doesn't work with everyone. Barry Switzer even admits years later that his coaching method towards Dupree was wrong and that he should have had a different approach.Okay that's it off my chest.

[Fenxis 99]

[pezeveng 207]

Ya rarely vent so its time Serge realizes why I hate Wilson so much. He's not a bad coach and I am sure his methods work on some players but obviously not the 2 that are suppose to be of importance to this team.Like it or not Schenn and Kadri were 2 key pieces and it seems both don't fit with this coach. Getting rid of the players and not the coach is stupid in this case.

[mrdannyg 274]

Good post pez.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

Good post pez.

[Jason12 0]

I dont really agree with what you said about Luke Schenn. This is his 4th year in the league the Leafs cant afford to give him the rookie treatment forever. I feel similar with Kadri....it would be nice to give him a regular spot with the Leafs even if he struggles but they arent good enough to do that and still make the playoffs. What you said about Gustavsson is bang on...all year hes been put in a position to fail. They were showing the Leafs practice live when they were talking to Brian Burke on tradecentre and when Gustavsson let in a goal he slammed his stick against the post even though it wasnt a bad goal. He is clearly an emotional guy so I dont see why they are constantly putting him in bad spots. If you go by the best 4 teams in the east (Rangers, Bruins, Penguins and Flyers) of the 12 games the Leafs have played against those teams Gustavsson has started 9 of them.

[Dubey 1,035]

Good post Pez.I feel like we are pretty fortunate that losing 9 out of 10 hasn't sunk us out of playoff contention. I was kind of hoping Burke would make a splash at the deadline to shake things up, as in the past, the team has usually responded really well to a major shakeup.That said, I feel pretty confident we are going to turn the ship around here and make a major push for the playoffs.