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Serge, you're really setting yourself up for disappointment again. Realistically.....Hanson: Doesnt have NHL quickness. Good overall speed, lots of skill, can't start and stopBozak: Good potential, could be a serviceable nhl 3 or 4th liner in a couple of years. Now, both of these players cost nothing so they are, essentially great acquisitions by Burke. Stalberg: again, a decent skill package, but the scouts are questioning his heart. If he could play with some life every night, again, a shot at a legitimate NHL'er. But he's kind of in the Alex Daigle/Jason Bonsignore boat. Skill for sure, but takes way too many nights offCaputi: if this was 2002, this kid would make any NHL team. He has size and grit. But he can't skate. Kadri: Legitimate blue chip prospect. If the leafs weren't so adamant about trying to make the playoffs every year, the perfect plan would be to allow this kid to slowly develop. A good move to send him back to junior this year. Ideally, a year in the AHL would help him tremendously. I hope that's how they develop him, and don't ruin him by rushing it. If they go slow, it will be fun to see how good this kid can be.Mitchell: on any other team this guy is in the minors. Kessel: You've watched him: he is WAY more effective when he doesn't have to carry the puck. Since teams started taking away the pass to him, and forced him to carry it, he is a turnover machine. He could be a great scorer in this league. With support. Which the leafs dont have. So that's your top 7 actually, including Kadri. The defense? Definately good. Phaneuf: time will tell whether he goes back to being a stud, or continues to fall off.Beauchemin: After a terrible start, he's been very very good.Kaberle: irrelevant. Wont be here after this summer. Burke traded him once, and tried to trade him again yesterday.Schenn: This one will be interesting. After a promising start to his career, he has been frankly awful. That's the words of his coach and his GM. Maybe he was rushed. I hope he isn't ruined, because he could have been a great Adam Foote type defenseman.GoaltendingGiguere: serviceable, but on the downside of his career. Wont be here when his contract expires. Could help with GustavssonGustavsson: I have no idea. Looked good, looked bad, has a lot to learn, but a lot of skill. I really don't know Either way, there is no stud goaltender on this team. There really isn't even a good starter. This team cannot win without goaltending. So there is an honest assessment of this project. If you can take your fan glasses off for a second, let me know what you disagree with and why. The one thing everyone agrees with in the hockey world is that Burke has gutted this team of players brought in by Ferguson and Fletcher as well. Nothing wrong with that, but you say you can see the blueprint: no one I know sees a plan on how to improve this team from this point. There just isn't enough free agent talent, and the draft cupboard is bare.
Ok Ill bite...Your comments are warranted in some cases..We obviously disagree on others...Ill start with the goalie out..Giguere is adequate and I believe the Monster is still developing...I am not worried about goaltending, its the quickest fix of any championship team...Look at the Flyers, they have decided to go into the playoffs with a waiver pickup...Bryzgalov was another waiver pick up..The Defense I think is very solid...You havent included Komisarek there, i think he had played better before his injury..Phaneuf is a stud, and we HOPE he will develop into a norris trophy candidate all star that he was looking like a few years ago..Remember he is still very young..Schenn while he looked awful in the beginning of the year has played much better...Beauchemin is very good..You dont mention Gunnarsson , he has looked like he will develop into a solid dman..He has looked very good at times...I am not sold on trading Kaberle, but if we do we still have a good defensive corp..Now the forwards , if we trade Kaberle it will be for a first line forward...Burke isnt going to trade him for a 7th round pick, and he WONT trade him unless he gets full value..For the sake of argument lets say Jeff Carter..So the forwards...Kessel will have support and he is a 35-40 goal scorer in the NHL..I dont care how he plays defensively, his goal is to put the puck in the net..You cant teach that quick release and the speed...The first line will consist of Kessel, Free agent(Patrick Marleau) and Kaberle trade forward(Jeff Carter)..So in a realistic scenario Kessel,Marleau will be our first line.Where we also disagree on is Bozak..I have watched this kid pretty closely and i think he is a player..I also believe that Grabovski is a player that will contribute to this team as a second line player...Here is what i see..with anticipated Salary cap hitsFIRST LINEMarleau(5mill), Carter(5 million) Kessel(5.4) .........TOTAL 15.4 millionSecond lineTorres(2.5) Grabovski(2.9) Kadri(.9)...I like to see kadri play the wing TOTAL 6.3 millionThird lineStalberg/Hanson/Kulemin/Caputi(2 of these for a total of $2 mill) Centre Bozak 1.75 million....TOTAL 3.75 millionFourth lineOrr(1) Mitchell(1) Sjostrom(.75) TOTAL 2.75FORWARDS TOTAL $28.2 millionDEFENSEPhaneuf(6.5) Beauchemin( 3.8)Schenn(2.9) Komisarek(4.5)Gunnarsson(.8) Michalek(2) FATOTAL top 6 DMAN 20.5 millionGoaliesGiguere 6 millionMonster 1.5 millionTOTAL Goalies 7.5 Total Cap spent $56.2These numbers are rough estimates and the lineup is a rough blueprint..There is some tweaking that needs to be done to stay under the cap and a couple of trades that need to be made...There you go
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I am no genius like the lot of you when it comes to numbers and such but Marleau for $5 million seems like someone is dreaming to me. But I admittedly could be wrong.Edit: I guess the more I look at it it starts to make sense.

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Kadri's cap hit is closer to 2 million...you must include rookie bonuses. Also, I don't think you'll get Carter for Kaberle. It almost happened before but Kaberle is two years older and Carter showed his goal-scoring prowess. Dreaming is fun though.

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Look at the Flyers, they have decided to go into the playoffs with a waiver pickup...Bryzgalov was another waiver pick up..
And the Flyers have been doing this for ever, and they've been losing almost as long as the Leafs.Bryzgalov was not a normal waiver pick up. He was only waived because Giguere outplayed him and/or had the big contract already, and Burke promised to move him because he felt he was worthy of being a starting goaltender. He's certainly no Michael Leighton.
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The Sharks only have 10 roster spots filled for next season and they have around $22 million in cap space to work with. I know that isn't a lot to fill 13 spots, but somehow I don't see Marleau going anywhere.

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Kadri's cap hit is closer to 2 million...you must include rookie bonuses. Also, I don't think you'll get Carter for Kaberle. It almost happened before but Kaberle is two years older and Carter showed his goal-scoring prowess. Dreaming is fun though.
Its a rough estimate..And i said a player LIKE Carter..Kaberle is not gonna be traded if he doesnt bring back a top line forward.
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And the Flyers have been doing this for ever, and they've been losing almost as long as the Leafs.Bryzgalov was not a normal waiver pick up. He was only waived because Giguere outplayed him and/or had the big contract already, and Burke promised to move him because he felt he was worthy of being a starting goaltender. He's certainly no Michael Leighton.
was he placed on waivers? Was he picked up?
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Its a rough estimate..And i said a player LIKE Carter..Kaberle is not gonna be traded if he doesnt bring back a top line forward.
It might still happen with one year left on his deal, but the closer we get to his free agency, the less likely this becomes.I personally think the Leafs missed the boat on getting a player with Carter's skill level for Kaberle.
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It might still happen with one year left on his deal, but the closer we get to his free agency, the less likely this becomes.I personally think the Leafs missed the boat on getting a player with Carter's skill level for Kaberle.
the previous regime made a lot of mistakes..A LOT ...Burke is trying to get rid of all these mistakes..The last one is Kaberle..The no trade clause is the mistake there..
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was he placed on waivers? Was he picked up?
Yes, but comparing him to Leighton, and somehow thinking that you can win a Stanley Cup going into the season hoping that someone you pick up on waivers will be your starting goalie, is making you sound kinda silly.
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Anaheim did him a solid and waived him 2 or 3 years ago, that's how Phoenix got him.
the point i was making was, goalies are easier to come by than top line dman, and top line scorers IMO..Obviously they couldnt even trade him, so they waived him.
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the point i was making was, goalies are easier to come by than top line dman, and top line scorers IMO..Obviously they couldnt even trade him, so they waived him.
Top end goalies are not. This is the most outrageous thing I've ever seen.I agree top end skaters are not easy to come by, and I agree that a random goalie will be easy to find, but I don't know how you compare a random goalie and a top end forward or d-man.Also, that Bryzgalov situation comes up once every what, 100 years?
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Top end goalies are not. This is the most outrageous thing I've ever seen.I agree top end skaters are not easy to come by, and I agree that a random goalie will be easy to find, but I don't know how you compare a random goalie and a top end forward or d-man.Also, that Bryzgalov situation comes up once every what, 100 years?
yes exactly every 100 years..
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If picking up a top line goalie is so easy, why didn't everyone do it? I don't get it.
thats not what I said..I said its easier..In our case our goalie situation is fine..
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If picking up a top line goalie is so easy, why didn't everyone do it? I don't get it.
Because not everyone lives in Serge's fantasy world.In Serge's fantasy world:- players placed on waivers by other teams are hidden gems and will become solid NHLers once picked up by the Leafs- Burke is able to find and sign free agents like Bozek and Hanson who will turn into top 6 forwards- Caputi is a blue chip prospect despite what the management of the Stanley Cup winning Penguins think- good goaltending is not that difficult to find and the fact that the Leafs have given up the second most goals in the league is only an indication that Burke hasn't looked for good goaltending yet- 40-goal scorers are not easy to find but Burke will somehow manage to turn Kaberle into one- players are potential stars as long as they play for the Leafs but turn into underperforming duds as soon as they are traded- the Kessel trade was a good one because even last place teams in the rebuilding process need a quality goal scorer even if it cost them quality draft picks- prospects and draft picks are not that important because they may never pan out unless of course they happen to be Leaf prospects- having a solid top 6 defenseman is a great blueprint even if it handicaps your ability to have quality forwards- the fact that Calgary disproved the previous point means nothing because they didn't have Burke and Ron Wilson...etc
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i like your positivity serge but youre absolutely dreaming if you think the leafs will sign marleau at all, let alone for that price. hes played himself into a new contract with san jose so far this season, but if the sharks flounder in the postseason like usual than they may decide to get rid of him altogether after taking his captaincy away this year. still, hes getting paid 6.3mill now and is having a great year and is only 30, no way his salary drops that much if at all.i think its crucially important to note that if we resign kulemin, hanson and the monster, and keep all of the guys signed to the team right now (kessel, bozak, grabo, orr, stalberg, caputi, sjostrom up front; phaneuf, komisarek, kaberle, beauch, schenn, gunnar on d) while SOMEHOW dumping jeff finger we will only have 10 million in cap space for potential free agents (going by capgeek). thats with kadri added as well, who I hope isn't rushed and is given proper time to develop in the AHL but who knows what the leafs will do.that said, the free agent list this year is awful, outside of kovalchuk and marleau there are no real premier talents, but guys like plekanec, armstrong and possibly frolov/lombardi could be targeted by burke for the right price. there are however a bunch of restricted free agents that I believe burke will have strong interest in, such as ryan, kesler, backstrom, pavelski, mueller and maybe andrew ladd. my point of all this is that kaberle, or another defenceman, has to be moved, absolutely has to be moved to afford us the cap room to even have the option of adding to our roster through the ufa/rfa pool. our blueline is eating up too much money, and one of komi/kaberle/beauch must, out of necessity, be moved. heres what I think will happen from this day till the start of next season:we continue to be a team that looks great some nights but more often looks lost for the rest of this season. young guys get some experience, we get to watch a hockey team that is playing for nothing other than no giving boston the #1 overall pick. come july 1 burke will make a push at the guys I mentioned above, and I definitely don't rule out the possibility of signing kovalchuk and would pretty much consider armstrong a lock to be signed here. depending on who we acquire from the ufa/rfa pool, burke will either be forced to trade kaberle or won't trade him at all unless another gm throws an amazing trade at him. i think that the ufa/rfa period determines the success or failure of this leafs rebuild, as burke knows fans aren't going to accept losing for much longer. i think that we will be over the cap right up until the start of the season if we don't trade kaberle, and some contacts will have to be buried (looking at you finger).go leafs go

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Because not everyone lives in Serge's fantasy world.In Serge's fantasy world:- players placed on waivers by other teams are hidden gems and will become solid NHLers once picked up by the Leafs- Burke is able to find and sign free agents like Bozek and Hanson who will turn into top 6 forwards- Caputi is a blue chip prospect despite what the management of the Stanley Cup winning Penguins think- good goaltending is not that difficult to find and the fact that the Leafs have given up the second most goals in the league is only an indication that Burke hasn't looked for good goaltending yet- 40-goal scorers are not easy to find but Burke will somehow manage to turn Kaberle into one- players are potential stars as long as they play for the Leafs but turn into underperforming duds as soon as they are traded- the Kessel trade was a good one because even last place teams in the rebuilding process need a quality goal scorer even if it cost them quality draft picks- prospects and draft picks are not that important because they may never pan out unless of course they happen to be Leaf prospects- having a solid top 6 defenseman is a great blueprint even if it handicaps your ability to have quality forwards- the fact that Calgary disproved the previous point means nothing because they didn't have Burke and Ron Wilson...etc
My favorite, because it's so true. In Serge-World, everyone who plays for the Leafs is a current or future superstar and everyone who used to play for the Leafs is either washed up or performed under their potential thus necessitating their trade/waiving/demotion. Every current member of Leafs coaching/management is a genius, every past member of Leafs coaching/management is gleefully left behind. I wish I had the drive and desire to find all the posts praising Andrew Raycroft as a future superstar for the Leafs that just have to exist on this forum somewhere. :club:
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i like your positivity serge but youre absolutely dreaming if you think the leafs will sign marleau at all, let alone for that price. hes played himself into a new contract with san jose so far this season, but if the sharks flounder in the postseason like usual than they may decide to get rid of him altogether after taking his captaincy away this year. still, hes getting paid 6.3mill now and is having a great year and is only 30, no way his salary drops that much if at all.i think its crucially important to note that if we resign kulemin, hanson and the monster, and keep all of the guys signed to the team right now (kessel, bozak, grabo, orr, stalberg, caputi, sjostrom up front; phaneuf, komisarek, kaberle, beauch, schenn, gunnar on d) while SOMEHOW dumping jeff finger we will only have 10 million in cap space for potential free agents (going by capgeek). thats with kadri added as well, who I hope isn't rushed and is given proper time to develop in the AHL but who knows what the leafs will do.that said, the free agent list this year is awful, outside of kovalchuk and marleau there are no real premier talents, but guys like plekanec, armstrong and possibly frolov/lombardi could be targeted by burke for the right price. there are however a bunch of restricted free agents that I believe burke will have strong interest in, such as ryan, kesler, backstrom, pavelski, mueller and maybe andrew ladd. my point of all this is that kaberle, or another defenceman, has to be moved, absolutely has to be moved to afford us the cap room to even have the option of adding to our roster through the ufa/rfa pool. our blueline is eating up too much money, and one of komi/kaberle/beauch must, out of necessity, be moved. heres what I think will happen from this day till the start of next season:we continue to be a team that looks great some nights but more often looks lost for the rest of this season. young guys get some experience, we get to watch a hockey team that is playing for nothing other than no giving boston the #1 overall pick. come july 1 burke will make a push at the guys I mentioned above, and I definitely don't rule out the possibility of signing kovalchuk and would pretty much consider armstrong a lock to be signed here. depending on who we acquire from the ufa/rfa pool, burke will either be forced to trade kaberle or won't trade him at all unless another gm throws an amazing trade at him. i think that the ufa/rfa period determines the success or failure of this leafs rebuild, as burke knows fans aren't going to accept losing for much longer. i think that we will be over the cap right up until the start of the season if we don't trade kaberle, and some contacts will have to be buried (looking at you finger).go leafs go
Do the Leafs have the required draft picks to go after quality RFAs?
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You guys are giving Serge way too hard a time about the goalie thing. In his example, he used Giguere and Monster. And his general point, that good goalies are easier to find on waivers than good non-goalies, is also correct. He didn't say "we're going to win a championship by picking up the next Bryzgalov."

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Yeah I was gonna say, he just said "Goalies are easier to find than top skaters". You guys are heaping on him like he said "Brodeurs are a dime a dozen" :PEdit: Sit tight serge, the cavalry is here!

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You guys are giving Serge way too hard a time about the goalie thing. In his example, he used Giguere and Monster. And his general point, that good goalies are easier to find on waivers than good non-goalies, is also correct. He didn't say "we're going to win a championship by picking up the next Bryzgalov."
I'm not giving him a hard time about goalies, I happen to think Toronto has very good goaltending and defense at the moment. It's their goal scoring that is going to be a lasting problem. I have the same issue with Buffalo, all the defense and goaltending in the world isn't going to win you any games if you can't put the puck in the fucking net.
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I'm not giving him a hard time about goalies, I happen to think Toronto has very good goaltending and defense at the moment. It's their goal scoring that is going to be a lasting problem. I have the same issue with Buffalo, all the defense and goaltending in the world isn't going to win you any games if you can't put the puck in the fucking net.
Obviously no non-Leaf fan will have faith in Burkie's plan, but this is how he has been saying ALL along that he operates. He went for goaltending and defence first (built from the net out), and now his defence core is strong and locked up long term. He has one of his offensive centrepieces in place in Kessel, and has spent a great deal of time this year clearing out the garbage up front (Mayers, stempniak, poni, etc). He doesn't have to build a TEAM any more (as per gruven's Be a GM thread :club:), now he just has to fill out the forwards core. Obviously it's going to require another shitload of work, but I think he has REALLY stuck to his plan and set himself up nicely.Edit: I should qualify "strong" defence core, because obviously there is risk involved here too. The gamble is that Phaneuf returns to form, that Komi NOT be hurt and Gunnarrson blossom.
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You guys are giving Serge way too hard a time about the goalie thing. In his example, he used Giguere and Monster. And his general point, that good goalies are easier to find on waivers than good non-goalies, is also correct. He didn't say "we're going to win a championship by picking up the next Bryzgalov."
Yeah I was gonna say, he just said "Goalies are easier to find than top skaters". You guys are heaping on him like he said "Brodeurs are a dime a dozen" :PEdit: Sit tight serge, the cavalry is here!
Serge's fantasy world isn't just based on his last few posts, but feel free to substitute my point on goaltenders with the following:- the goalie situation is just fine because the Leafs have given up the second most goals in the league but that was mostly with goalies who are now gone. The leafs now have a goalie who has had heart surgery and another goalie who despite getting up there in age will earn $7 million next year.Raycroft - he was rookie of the year...he'll be great...oopsRask will be gre...oh we traded him...we have Pogge anyway.Pogge - oopsToskela - we finally got a good goalie who can help us win games all by himself....double oopsGustafsson - I've never seen him play a game but Burke likes him enough to sign him and his nickname is the Monster so he must be good...oops in progressGiguere - of course we'll take your overpaid goalie, but only if you take our overpaid player.
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