A Terrible Razz Hand In The Negreanu Open Horse

[cdannons 0]

I started in late position with (7 7) 5. A player brought in with a Q and a J limped before it was folded to me. Now 7 7 5 is not a playable razz hand and J x x has me beat at the moment, but he can't see that I have paired cards so I look at this as a good bluffing opportunity and correctly complete the bet to 60. Everybody folds to the J who calls. I hit (7 7) 5 K and he hits (x x) J A. Even though as far as he knows this is a coinflip, he of course, bets anyway to force us to risk our chips. So now I still have great bluffing potential if he hits bad and I make the call (some of you may think my bluffing potential isn't very good, but trust me, you will see the power of the bluff at the end). I then hit (7 7) 5 K 6 and he gets (x x) J A 8, now even though this is usually a coinflip with me being a slight favorite, but he of course bets anway. So then 6th street comes and I get my beauty card (7 7) 5 K 6 2 against (x x) J A 8 A. Now as far as he knows, he is drawing dead here (against me you are very often drawing dead here). I'm first and make the bet. Now here is the beauty of the bluff. If he folds (which he should, he has 1 cards to get to an 8 low which may be drawing dead right now, and even if he isn't, I can still improve) then great. But if he is a terrible poker player and calls, he has to improve on the river in order to call my final bet. This means that even if he is bad enough to call, assuming he will call me with a T low or better on the river, he can't hit a x, the other x, a J, A, 8, Q, or K. It should also be noted that I have 5 of his low cards! O wait, 1 more thing, I'm drawing to a 7 low! There are so many ways for me to win this hand is unbelievable. Of course, I pair on the river and bet, he hits the miracle 9 and I lose a big pot, aboslutely ridiculous. The guy put himself in such a terrible situation and got lucky. I'm not sure if I'm only suposed to put questions of advice on the forum, but I just found this hand interesting.

[monix 0]

This post is bad on so may levels...= Don't limp or call a bet with a paired starting hand in Razz= Don't try and bluff bad players= The enter key is your friend= BBFIDTS

[Cappy37 0]

This post is bad on so may levels...= Don't limp or call a bet with a paired starting hand in Razz= Don't try and bluff bad players= The enter key is your friend= BBFIDTS

That is the #1 key to razz. Know quickly who can lay a hand down and who can't.. It is *vital* to your survival in razz. Now, you are talking about a Horse tourney, so, even if it's the Neg - O do not give your opponent credit for knowing the basics of razz beyond lowest hand wins. I play $1-$5 MTT razz and horse tourneys, and believe me, your focus should be on stealing when the blinds matter, and playing good cards against bad players. The last thing you want to do is get involved in a big pot with a lousy hand against someone who can't lay down. If I had a dollar for everytime I've been busted by a Queen up late in a razz/horse tourney, I'd be eating taco bell on the house for days.

[cdannons 0]

Trust me, I stress tight play a lot in razz, especially early in a tournament and have won my fair share of razz tournaments, but the playing level in the negreanu open tends to be better than most tournaments and MUCH better than normal razz tournaments, but the main point of the play was, even if he can't lay down a hand, I'm still a favorite to win the hand going into the river, unless he is willing to call with a J low when I have 3 low cards showing and have played the hand like I have a real hand, he is gonna have to fold the river if he hits bad, and even if he hits good, I'm still drawing to a 7 low. As for playing the bad starting hand, if it's just me and the J, even if we both go to the showdown, I'm only a slight dog, it's practically a coinflip, and all the other cards left when it was my turn to act were high, there is a great potential to win the hand, it's a coinflip as far as I know and as far as he knows I have the stronger hand.

[solderz 0]

Trust me, I stress tight play a lot in razz, especially early in a tournament and have won my fair share of razz tournaments, but the playing level in the negreanu open tends to be better than most tournaments and MUCH better than normal razz tournaments, but the main point of the play was, even if he can't lay down a hand, I'm still a favorite to win the hand going into the river, unless he is willing to call with a J low when I have 3 low cards showing and have played the hand like I have a real hand, he is gonna have to fold the river if he hits bad, and even if he hits good, I'm still drawing to a 7 low. As for playing the bad starting hand, if it's just me and the J, even if we both go to the showdown, I'm only a slight dog, it's practically a coinflip, and all the other cards left when it was my turn to act were high, there is a great potential to win the hand, it's a coinflip as far as I know and as far as he knows I have the stronger hand.

[Cappy37 0]

Trust me, I stress tight play a lot in razz, especially early in a tournament and have won my fair share of razz tournaments, but the playing level in the negreanu open tends to be better than most tournaments and MUCH better than normal razz tournaments, but the main point of the play was, even if he can't lay down a hand, I'm still a favorite to win the hand going into the river, unless he is willing to call with a J low when I have 3 low cards showing and have played the hand like I have a real hand, he is gonna have to fold the river if he hits bad, and even if he hits good, I'm still drawing to a 7 low. As for playing the bad starting hand, if it's just me and the J, even if we both go to the showdown, I'm only a slight dog, it's practically a coinflip, and all the other cards left when it was my turn to act were high, there is a great potential to win the hand, it's a coinflip as far as I know and as far as he knows I have the stronger hand.

Break yourself into paragraphs, friend. It makes replying to individual points easier. ;)Let's look at this through his eyes:4th Street: He's caught wonderful, you have a King low. He's now ahead, he bets, you call. Note that he's building a pot to allow himself to see a couple cards5th Street: you get a 6, he gets an 8. He's still ahead. He bets, you call. This is now a pot you are both committed to.6th Street: You get a 2, he gets another Ace. : He has two aces, he no longer gives you credit for an ace, at least to the point that he's reasonably sure that 2 paired you (Remember, you repped strength from the start, you "had to have" low cards with your 7). Either you have one of 2 aces left, or you had a 2 (or both), he's now sure enough he's still in the drivers seat. You now dark tunnel a bet into him that he is *not* going to lay down. It's far too likely that two paired you. He has little to no reason to fold in a pot this large.7th Street: You probably have to bet here, but he also probably has to call with the pot that big. A better play would have probably been to C/R on 6th, which would have either lost less if he checked behind, or given your river bet more teeth, since having a C/R worthy hand dictates you *have* to bet out on 7th to get "paid off" on the end. Of course, he has to be good enough to realize that. Either way. You never truly ahead in this hand and you called yourself into a big pot and got unlucky.Edit: You may want to repost this hand in the Stud section (where Razz hands go). Hanguk, Kowboy, and Checky are easier to find in there, and they could give you the expert advice.

[Frez 0]

Since you're happy to play (77)5 against a (XX)J, tell me why you did not raise on 3rd, instead of just completing? It either sets up your future bluff, or builds the pot when you do make a hand. You don't show any strength until 6th street, and by then there's too much money in the pot for him to let it go if he has any chance. (Press Enter key now X 2)Why do you think "as far as he knows you have the better hand"? You have done nothing to show you have a good hand. If you start with a crappy hand with the intent of running a bluff, set it up while the pot is small and the bets are cheap.

[checkymcfold 0]

3rd is fine, but if he donkbets he's way ahead, wants to go further in the hand, etc, so you should just give up on 4th.