Dn Playing Some 100/200 Nl

[rawkodd 0]

Do higher level players intstant message each other during most games? Seems like they can collude pretty easy if they do.Something about this seems kind of untrustworthy, these two talking off the table. Is it just me?

uhhh... i don't participate in these activities but i can tell you with utmost certainty that not only do big stakes players collude but small stake botters explicitly collude instantaniously... i'm quite certain that a LARGE majority of players small, medium, and big collude...yes... large... majority... those of us that play legit on the up and up are most likely in the minority

[cubsfan44 0]

uhhh... i don't participate in these activities but i can tell you with utmost certainty that not only do big stakes players collude but small stake botters explicitly collude instantaniously... i'm quite certain that a LARGE majority of players small, medium, and big collude...yes... large... majority... those of us that play legit on the up and up are most likely in the minority

What percentage of baseball players do you think are on the juice still?

[rawkodd 0]

What percentage of baseball players do you think are on the juice still?

well let's see... i was approached by my HS coach to do roids in errrrr 1989... pro atheletes in 2007 hmmmmmmmmmmmm... ya it's a large percentage... and that won't ever change... too much money at stake

[cubsfan44 0]

well let's see... i was approached by my HS coach to do roids in errrrr 1989... pro atheletes in 2007 hmmmmmmmmmmmm... ya it's a large percentage... and that won't ever change... too much money at stake

Yes, but do you say that with utmost certainty though?

[Actuary 3]

well let's see... i was approached by my HS coach to do roids in errrrr 1989... pro atheletes in 2007 hmmmmmmmmmmmm... ya it's a large percentage... and that won't ever change... too much money at stake

who killed Kennedy?

[rawkodd 0]

Yes, but do you say that with utmost certainty though?

actually ya i can say that with the utmost certainty due to a vocal ex-player radio personality that has a world series ring on his finger... but who cares baseball sux (sorry cubs fan; my grandpa just rolled over in his grave too)... as far as colluding online... i'm not gonna just lay it all out there but a very short google search will validate more than an emo-long essay will reveal... but you can keep thinking that everyone is playing legit... i'm just a lurker here been reading posts for years and only registered an account a short time ago... not looking for beef but if ppl think that colluding isn't going on in oodles and gobs is just naive to put it mildly

[rawkodd 0]

who killed Kennedy?

you and me

[Actuary 3]

you and me

well played

[wsox8 10]

actually ya i can say that with the utmost certainty due to a vocal ex-player radio personality that has a world series ring on his finger... but who cares baseball sux (sorry cubs fan; my grandpa just rolled over in his grave too)... as far as colluding online... i'm not gonna just lay it all out there but a very short google search will validate more than an emo-long essay will reveal... but you can keep thinking that everyone is playing legit... i'm just a lurker here been reading posts for years and only registered an account a short time ago... not looking for beef but if ppl think that colluding isn't going on in oodles and gobs is just naive to put it mildly

It's a given that some people collude and cheat but I need more evidence than this to prove that you are very certain that a LARGE amount of people do at all limits.

[mase_gotsem 0]

i agree about all the collusion although i can not prove it

[PoppinFresh 0]

General comment: Completely disagree with online poker not being a feel game or online players not understanding the psychology of poker, especially in a game like heads up NLHE. Top players have a great feel for the flow of the game (and even a hand) and their opponent's mood and are constantly adjusting their play to take advantage of it. I'm sure that most of us have seen the HH's of incredible reads made by the top online players and had that "how is that even possible?" feeling. They aren't just getting lucky.IMO live players have had a relatively tough time switching to the online game while online players have found the transition to live games relatively easy. Some people attribute this to online players having mroe experience and just generally being "better" players due to playing in tougher games, etc., but they're missing an important aspect. As we all know transitioning from online play to live play you gain information, and vice versa. An online player is still able to take into account the psychology of his opponent based solely on the action in previous hands, he doesn't need to see him to do this. When he sits in a live game he may not be able to take complete advantage of the extra information, but he doesn't lose anything that makes him great. On the other hand, a live player who excels on at gleaning information from his opponent based on physical cues is all of a sudden at a loss in an online setting. Daniel said in an earlier post that playing online you need to make more informational type bets and put more money in on the flop in order to make better decisions later on in the hand. It makes sense that he would feel this way but that doesn't mean it's the optimal way to play

[Fluffdog87 2]

General comment: Completely disagree with online poker not being a feel game or online players not understanding the psychology of poker, especially in a game like heads up NLHE. Top players have a great feel for the flow of the game (and even a hand) and their opponent's mood and are constantly adjusting their play to take advantage of it. I'm sure that most of us have seen the HH's of incredible reads made by the top online players and had that "how is that even possible?" feeling. They aren't just getting lucky.IMO live players have had a relatively tough time switching to the online game while online players have found the transition to live games relatively easy. Some people attribute this to online players having mroe experience and just generally being "better" players due to playing in tougher games, etc., but they're missing an important aspect. As we all know transitioning from online play to live play you gain information, and vice versa. An online player is still able to take into account the psychology of his opponent based solely on the action in previous hands, he doesn't need to see him to do this. When he sits in a live game he may not be able to take complete advantage of the extra information, but he doesn't lose anything that makes him great. On the other hand, a live player who excels on at gleaning information from his opponent based on physical cues is all of a sudden at a loss in an online setting. Daniel said in an earlier post that playing online you need to make more informational type bets and put more money in on the flop in order to make better decisions later on in the hand. It makes sense that he would feel this way but that doesn't mean it's the optimal way to play

I agree. You can have great feel while playing online just like live poker.

[PoppinFresh 0]

Hoosier,poopers isn't Prahlad? I thought it was confirmed that it was him?

[Fluffdog87 2]

Example of great feel. My good friend pt special on fcp today pwned Kadabra for $5k+ by making sick calls and plays like this all match.NC SIR!*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to wisconsin kid [Td Th]wisconsin kid raises to $30Kadabra raises to $90wisconsin kid calls $60*** FLOP *** [Js 5d 2h]Kadabra bets $130wisconsin kid calls $130*** TURN *** [Js 5d 2h] [Ah]Kadabra bets $270wisconsin kid calls $270*** RIVER *** [Js 5d 2h Ah] [Qs]Kadabra bets $1,167.50, and is all inwisconsin kid has 15 seconds left to actwisconsin kid has requested TIMEwisconsin kid calls $1,167.50Wisc0nsinKid (1:41:58 AM): *** SHOW DOWN ***Kadabra shows [8d 9s] Ace Queen highwisconsin kid shows [Td Th] a pair of Tenswisconsin kid wins the pot ($3,314.50) with a pair of TensKadabra is sitting outKadabra adds $1,000*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $3,315 | Rake $0.50Board: [Js 5d 2h Ah Qs]Seat 1: wisconsin kid (small blind) showed [Td Th] and won ($3,314.50) with a pair of TensSeat 2: Kadabra (big blind) showed [8d 9s] and lost with Ace Queen high

[HoosierAlum 0]

Hoosier,poopers isn't Prahlad? I thought it was confirmed that it was him?

i don't think so,,,so much leveling going on at 2+2 I could be mistaken though

[pt special 0]

Example of great feel. My good friend pt special on fcp today pwned Kadabra for $5k+ by making sick calls and plays like this all match.NC SIR!*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to wisconsin kid [Td Th]wisconsin kid raises to $30Kadabra raises to $90wisconsin kid calls $60*** FLOP *** [Js 5d 2h]Kadabra bets $130wisconsin kid calls $130*** TURN *** [Js 5d 2h] [Ah]Kadabra bets $270wisconsin kid calls $270*** RIVER *** [Js 5d 2h Ah] [Qs]Kadabra bets $1,167.50, and is all inwisconsin kid has 15 seconds left to actwisconsin kid has requested TIMEwisconsin kid calls $1,167.50Wisc0nsinKid (1:41:58 AM): *** SHOW DOWN ***Kadabra shows [8d 9s] Ace Queen highwisconsin kid shows [Td Th] a pair of Tenswisconsin kid wins the pot ($3,314.50) with a pair of TensKadabra is sitting outKadabra adds $1,000*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $3,315 | Rake $0.50Board: [Js 5d 2h Ah Qs]Seat 1: wisconsin kid (small blind) showed [Td Th] and won ($3,314.50) with a pair of TensSeat 2: Kadabra (big blind) showed [8d 9s] and lost with Ace Queen high

it didnt make anysense that he had a hand here, went with the read...called and was goodand you definately can sense how someone is feelin online....like today, i saw Kadabras avatar crying..right then i knew he wasnt happy

[Jordan 1]

Example of great feel. My good friend pt special on fcp today pwned Kadabra for $5k+ by making sick calls and plays like this all match.NC SIR!*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to wisconsin kid [Td Th]wisconsin kid raises to $30Kadabra raises to $90wisconsin kid calls $60*** FLOP *** [Js 5d 2h]Kadabra bets $130wisconsin kid calls $130*** TURN *** [Js 5d 2h] [Ah]Kadabra bets $270wisconsin kid calls $270*** RIVER *** [Js 5d 2h Ah] [Qs]Kadabra bets $1,167.50, and is all inwisconsin kid has 15 seconds left to actwisconsin kid has requested TIMEwisconsin kid calls $1,167.50Wisc0nsinKid (1:41:58 AM): *** SHOW DOWN ***Kadabra shows [8d 9s] Ace Queen highwisconsin kid shows [Td Th] a pair of Tenswisconsin kid wins the pot ($3,314.50) with a pair of TensKadabra is sitting outKadabra adds $1,000*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $3,315 | Rake $0.50Board: [Js 5d 2h Ah Qs]Seat 1: wisconsin kid (small blind) showed [Td Th] and won ($3,314.50) with a pair of TensSeat 2: Kadabra (big blind) showed [8d 9s] and lost with Ace Queen high

kadabra is god awfulhe plays me at 2/4 and i havn't played him higher, but i gladly would.all i know is he won ftops event #1 this last summer and i wouldn't be surprised if htat was his br.i'm a dick to tourney donks on occasion, and after i busted him a few times i asked him what his roll was before the big win. he said 70k, and i really dont believe him at all. although i suppose it could be true. i've just never seen him in any cash games before that.someone tell me if i'm wrong.<3 his spews.- Jordan

[Jordan 1]

one of my more fond hands against himFull Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $2/$4 Blinds - 2 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)hero (BB): $458.50SB: $612.50Preflop: hero is dealt 8 9 (2 Players)SB raises to $12.00, hero calls $8.00Flop: ($24) 5 3 9 (2 Players)hero checks, SB bets $16.00, hero raises to $54.00, SB calls $38.00Turn: ($132) K (2 Players)hero bets $90.00, SB raises all-in to $546.50, hero calls all-in for $302.50Uncalled bet of $154.00 returned to SBRiver: ($917) 2 (2 Players - 2 All-In)Pot Size: $917.00 ($0.50 Rake)SB had 5 6 (a pair of Fives) and LOST (-$458.50)hero had 8 9 (a pair of Nines) and WON (+$458.00)insta call turn ship it.- Jordan

[pt special 0]

lol...send me a PM with ur aim name jordan

[Fluffdog87 2]

...and you definately can sense how someone is feelin online....like today, i saw Kadabras avatar crying..right then i knew he wasnt happy

lol nh sir

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

lol drawingdeadDM. I remember a thread a long time ago where you defended NEVER folding KK preflop to the death. Do you still stand by that?

In a NLHE cash game where we are ~200 BB's deep, yup..always and forever.

I agree.DrawingDead always comes across as some smartass know it all. He's just annoying in general.

Name one time that I've been wrong, when I've come across as a 'some-smartass know-it-all'. Oh, okay.. The difference between me and most of the posters here is that I don't open my mouth(type a reply, make a new topic), unless I know what the fuck I'm talking about. At no point, in this thread, did I say anything wrong, refutable or otherwise misleading.

[fees 0]

DN, get FTP and PS to reach an agreement where FTP and PS players can transfer $ from site to site.. it would be awsome for all the players and the FTP players could get money on to PS to get some awsome HSNL games.Or at the very least put some $ on to FTP and go play one of them, I mean how could you possibly not be interested to test yourself out agaisnt durr or aba.Holla

[PrtyPSux 0]

General comment: Completely disagree with online poker not being a feel game or online players not understanding the psychology of poker, especially in a game like heads up NLHE. Top players have a great feel for the flow of the game (and even a hand) and their opponent's mood and are constantly adjusting their play to take advantage of it. I'm sure that most of us have seen the HH's of incredible reads made by the top online players and had that "how is that even possible?" feeling. They aren't just getting lucky.IMO live players have had a relatively tough time switching to the online game while online players have found the transition to live games relatively easy. Some people attribute this to online players having mroe experience and just generally being "better" players due to playing in tougher games, etc., but they're missing an important aspect. As we all know transitioning from online play to live play you gain information, and vice versa. An online player is still able to take into account the psychology of his opponent based solely on the action in previous hands, he doesn't need to see him to do this. When he sits in a live game he may not be able to take complete advantage of the extra information, but he doesn't lose anything that makes him great. On the other hand, a live player who excels on at gleaning information from his opponent based on physical cues is all of a sudden at a loss in an online setting. Daniel said in an earlier post that playing online you need to make more informational type bets and put more money in on the flop in order to make better decisions later on in the hand. It makes sense that he would feel this way but that doesn't mean it's the optimal way to play

obviously there's feel online, its just not nearly as big and completely different than live. Click tells, betting patterns etc sure, but actually sitting there infront of someone is an unreal edge. The reason a lot of live pros can't transition well is because for years they have taught themselves to focus on things other than their cards, a lot of which are physical tendencies that your opponent has, a lot of it is profiling too...it sounds kinda racist but I'll play most asians, women, black dudes, mexicans or an old men all differently (until their play proves otherwise), this is stuff you just cant know online and its HUGE, betting patterns in live poker are big too but not AS big because live players often don't know exactly how much is in the pot, a 575 bet often means the same as 550 bet where as online a 255 bet might mean a bluff when a 250 bet might mean he has it etc...therefor, these live players go online and now they have to play their hands, they don't know who they're playing and one of their main sources of getting information is taken away, even though they understand some betting patterns this has never been their main focus so now their main source of info is something that they're not particularly great at figuring out. I'm sure you can see how hard this transition could be after years of playing live, I'm sure you can also admit that online poker is waaaay more of a mechanical game than live so for a live player this is like playing a video game...A good example of a hand that you'd play online one way but might be able to play better live is something like AQ... guy raises to 150 pre and you call in position, the flop is AT9r he bets 300 and you know he can have any 2 really, you have two real ways to play this online against the usual player, you can raise to 800 or 750 and check behind any turn when he calls (even a Q or A) or you can just smooth call, in the first senario you are making a limit holdem type play and you HAVE to call any river bet almost, obv you can fold a small % of the time where the two worst cards peel but for the most part you'll call because of that famous online phrase "The way I played the hand, I have to call" so this is a + EV play in the long run online, but you'll be making a TON of bad calls when he hits a draw or has a set or something. Now live often you'll make the same play but know when the river helped the guy and fold, or know the guy is drawing and bet the turn knowing he wont c/r you, you can play your hand a million different ways based on your opponent. In the second play, online if you just call you HAVE to call the turn if he 2 barrels, and a lot of time you're going to have to make a big decision on the riv if he 3 barrels and either make a marginal call or a marginal fold with no real info other than wether or not the guy can 3 barrel bluff. Live , again you can sometimes fold/raise/or call the turn and riv bets with more certainty. About online players making the transition relatively easy, I don't know if thats 100% true, the reason that a winning 10/20 player would be able to beat a 10/20 or 25/50 live game is because the play is just sooo much worse live in general, there is no question about that. This is not to say that live pros are worse than online pros, its just clear to me that most of the guys sitting in my 10/20 live games arent pros, there are way more rich 40 year olds that feel like "gambling". In general though, I think a lot of big online "names" are TERRIBLE live, maybe not as bad as the amateurs but not nearly as good as they are online, I see this more in tourneys than cash games because I play more online players in tournaments but this is pretty much the same thing if we're talking about transitions. Like I said earlier, a lot of online players have bloated egos, they think they have everything figured out and a lot of them are oblivious to physical tells to the point where I've seen some guys laugh when you talk about it. Its not a case of wether or not online players are better than live players imo, I do think that a lot of the top online players are a little over hyped because they're usually only great at one game (like me except I dont consider myself a top player). Waco put it best one time when I was talking to him, he meant this about tourney players but it applies to cash players just as well imo, he said something like "the top 100 online players are definately better than the top 100 live players, but the top 5 or 10 live players are WAY better than the top 10 online players" I don't know how much sense this makes to you but it just means speaking in tourney terms that Ivey, Daniel, JC Tran are way better than Lil holdem and Imperium or whoever else is 3rd, but whoever is ranked 100th on pocket fives is probably way better than someone like miami john or whatever other multi bracelet winner that you'd rank in the top 100.... I guess I'm just ranting now so I'll stop but thats pretty much my main opinion on the neverending online vs live debate.

[PrtyPSux 0]

In a NLHE cash game where we are ~200 BB's deep, yup..always and forever.

I usually agree w/ u dd but this is horrible....maybe I'm misunderstanding something but are you saying you'd never fold KK pre with like 180 bb's behind?

[PrtyPSux 0]

JC, how long did it take you to fully adjust and become a winning player live when you came from online?

like 6 months, in tourneys. I'm a winning player in cash games but I still have trouble figuring out how I should be playing, live cash games play SOOO different its hard for me to adjust to the way some tables play.