Accepting Loss At The Poker Table.

[steve7stud 0]

One of the most difficult things for a poker player to do is to book a loss. It is often even more difficlut to take responsibilty for that loss. I want to share a couple of examples.The other night I decided to play someone heads up at a casino. In a heads up match you will have a lot of swings in both directions. When my opponent was winning he didn't say a word. When he was losing, he moaned and groaned about his bad luck, horrible cards, river, dealer, etc. It finally got so bad that I decided to put my headphones on. This is typically not something that you should do during live heads up play btw. I just couldn't deal with his annoying bicker. Several years ago I was playing in a very loose aggressive limit hold em game. I raised in middle position with 1010. I got a handful of callers. The flop came 3710 rainbow. I flopped gin. I bet and got called in a few spots. The turn was an off suit 2. I bet again and was raised by a player in late position. I re-raised him, everyone folded........and he and I got sever raises in. The river was another 2. I bet and he raised. I was almost positive I was beat, tabled my hand and called. Sure enough he went runner runner with an under pair and made quads. I want to take a minute to discuss a few things. In the first example, my opponent honestly didn't understand the nature of heads up play. He refused to accept the fact that sometimes he will win the best hand, and sometimes he will lose with it.The second example is a bit more complex. Without getting into discussion on how I played the hand, or how my opponent did, the obvious is that I took a bad beat. At the time I was running poorly and was not all that surprised to see something like that happen. However that is an extreme situation. What I failed to realize then, which is something that I realize now. Is that my losses were coming from poor game selection. I thought that I was simply running like a three leggged elephant. When in reality I was getting "unlucky" at times. But in essence, it was my choice of games that made me lose. Not luck ultimately.As I've grown older and become more experienced, I tend to look at things differently. When I lose there is a reason for it. Either I made a poor decision to sit in a game, didn't play my best, etc.I no longer look for external excuses. I always look to myself to figure out why I am losing. This is one of the most difficult things to do. People tell me all the time that they played perfect and still lost. They might have played perfect for a different game, but not neccessarily for the game they were in.Of course you as a poker player will get unlucky at times. You will also play perfect poker at the right time and still lose. These things are just part of the game. But don't think that running poorly for an extended period of time is natural. It's not. If you are losing for any length of time, you are doing something wrong. The sooner you take responsibilty for your losses. The sooner you will be on track to becoming a great player.Good Luck.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Variance is often a crutch. Whenever I hit an extended losing streak, I start to get disappointed and frustrated. I can't believe my bad luck. When the cloud passes I am able to objectively look at my play and determine that yes, there were situations where I played perfectly, only to have the natural probablity happen to swing in my opponent's favor in a key hand or two. However INVARIABLY (pun intended) there has been some good money thrown after the bad. Donking off some chips chasing the wrong hands out of position. Horrible reads on my opponents. Bad calls or not treating the end of my stack with any respect. In honest retrpospect, Easily 20% of any of my "downswings" can be attributed to these factors rather than true variance. And 20% can EASILY be the difference between long term winning v. long term losing play.I only play NL, and that by its nature is going to be a high variance game. Lately I have been experimenting a little with my game - I have loosened up my play a little, increasing my variance. I can still go back to my more natural "grinder" game, but want to make sure I have another weapon in my arsenal. When I play this style, I have to accept that my variance will increase and have to trust myself to do the self analysis required to make it a winning stye for me. Sometimes the timing will dictate that I leave a session as a loser. It is then my job to determine why.

[Zach6668 513]

lol, I was literally the only player on 5/10 AP between the hours of 4 am and 8 am EST tonight....Didn't stop me from losing 140 BBs.And for the first time in my life, I'm 100% confident that I can say I did not tilt during 1 single hand over that stretch.Good post though, Steve.

[Czech Razor 0]

Variance is often a crutch.

I think more people need to think about this concept. Too often it's easy to say "I'm running bad" rather than truly analyze your play and realize that initial variance and bad beats caused you to start playing sub-optimally.

[steve7stud 0]

lol, I was literally the only player on 5/10 AP between the hours of 4 am and 8 am EST tonight....Didn't stop me from losing 140 BBs.And for the first time in my life, I'm 100% confident that I can say I did not tilt during 1 single hand over that stretch.Good post though, Steve.

I am confused on how you lost 140BB's if you were the only player at that limit. Glad that you didn't go on tilt. Couple of things. I know that you multi-table. Take a good hard look at that. It might seem like the safer way to go, and you get bonus, rakeback, etc. But it "could" be the wrong approach. Second, just because you didn't go on tilt, doesn't mean that you didn't make mistakes. Not trying to rain on your parade. Just giving a different perspective.

[No_Neck 0]

Great post, I find one of my biggest issues is staying at a table after the donkey has left if I am stuck at that table.Also I have really been one or max two tables online, and playing multiple shorter sessions instead of one really long session and it is really amazing the improvement in results I have had.Thanks for all the great adviceEDIT: LOL at Zach coming in here and saying I don't do that....

[Canary3 1]

great post steve! im glad you are still around and contributing. Just from reading your posts, I start to think about the game in a different way.

[NoSup4U 0]

I am confused on how you lost 140BB's if you were the only player at that limit.

Obv he also won 140bbs :)Mark

[Spademan 94]

It finally got so bad that I decided to put my headphones on. This is typically not something that you should do during live heads up play btw. I just couldn't deal with his annoying bicker.

You should have used it to gather information, befriend him and create fold equity, or tilt him further.This is one place you should look for improvement, which I am sure you always are, admirably.

[antistuff 0]

When I lose there is a reason for it. Either I made a poor decision to sit in a game, didn't play my best, etc.I no longer look for external excuses. I always look to myself to figure out why I am losing. This is one of the most difficult things to do.

the day i started doing this my results improved dramatically. funny you mention it...now that i can't make excuses one of the things that changed was my game selection. i am now more honest with myself and will not only not play games that i cant beat but i wont play games that are tough especially if there is an easier game.edit:one other thing. most of the time that i have a losing session if i look through all my hands in poker tracker i can find enough small avoidable mistakes where i should have been break even or slightly winning.

[SpiderGuard 0]

I think more people need to think about this concept. Too often it's easy to say "I'm running bad" rather than truly analyze your play and realize that initial variance and bad beats caused you to start playing sub-optimally.

The misunderstanding of "variance" is just about the biggest problem with "good" poker players. Winning is NEVER a product of variance, losing ALWAYS is. In Steve's full house vs. quads example, if he wins that hand there is still variance at work. Losing that hand is just variance evening itself out against all the times he won the hand.Enough of me side-draining though.

[CobaltBlue 662]

I only play NL, and that by its nature is going to be a high variance game.

Depends on what you mean by high variance. Yes...you can win/lose more money on any given NLHE hand as opposed to comparable LHE stakes. However, over the short term (any given session), LHE is generally way swingier than NLHE. Of course, we might need to qualify whether these are short-handed or full ring.

[whatgreatis 0]

The casino is about a thirty minute drive from my house so it gives me a decent amount of time to think about the session on my way home. I always find a mistake somewhere in a session and realizing them will help me overcome them faster.

[silkyjonson 1]

This is a good topic. Too many players are quick to blame poor results on variance or saying "I run bad". If you want to become successful as a poker player you have to be able to critique yourself and be brutally honest. At the same time you do not want to go over to the other side and change everything you are doing because you took a couple bad beats, for example I know at times if I have taken a few nasty beats I slow down and my aggression factor goes down which can lead to more beats less profit etc.

[Sheiky 0]

Am i the only one that thinks about it the other way?The only time i go on tilt is when i play bad poker, bad luck doesn't get me much, it's silly getting worked up about something that's out of your control. I never blame luck for my losses, i guess this tends to make me more angry with myself but i feel i try to improve my play better than a lot of people i know who never stop talking about how they never win a race or their aces getting cracked 4 times in one day.

[theinvestor 0]

I can accpet a looss if i am all in before the floop

[Spademan 94]

Am i the only one that thinks about it the other way?The only time i go on tilt is when i play bad poker, bad luck doesn't get me much, it's silly getting worked up about something that's out of your control. I never blame luck for my losses, i guess this tends to make me more angry with myself but i feel i try to improve my play better than a lot of people i know who never stop talking about how they never win a race or their aces getting cracked 4 times in one day.

Is that really one sentence?Also, are you too lazy to press the shift key for "I"?

[Sheiky 0]

Does anyone really care?

[Spademan 94]

Does anyone really care?

Yes, people care.I care.That's plenty enough.

[fatman 1]

Back to the topic please folks.

[Spademan 94]

What topic?The ground breaking news that people should examine their game when they lose or win?The experimental thought that losing can cause tilt?The news that, like my signature has said for years, probability and variance are not "luck" but rather statistical and mathematical occurance?Which topic should we return to?Ease up on your reverence for material based on it's source people.This is pretty generic and obvious stuff.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Back to the topic please folks.

Finally some serious and constructive input to the topic.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

What topic?The ground breaking news that people should examine their game when they lose or win?The experimental thought that losing can cause tilt?The news that, like my signature has said for years, probability and variance are not "luck" but rather statistical and mathematical occurance?Which topic should we return to?Ease up on your reverence for material based on it's source people.This is pretty generic and obvious stuff.

Gee. And some more positive addition in the spirit to which you've led us to be accustomed.Didn't you at one point actually post relatively well thought out stuff? Now even your Troll posts are of the "you're just dumb" variety.What is it with Trolls these days?...why can't people if they don't like a thread or post, just go on to the next topic, or, better yet, forum?

[Spademan 94]

Gee. And some more positive addition in the spirit to which you've led us to be accustomed.What is it with Trolls these days?

Trolls?Are you stupid?Show me where I've trolled here.Nothing worse than an educated guy that is clueless.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Gee. And some more positive addition in the spirit to which you've led us to be accustomed.Didn't yo at one point actually post relatively well thought out stuff, now even your Troll posts are of the "you're just dumb" variety.What is it with Trolls these days?...why can't people if they don't like a thread or post, just go on to the next topic, or, better yet, forum?

....and, yes, I am aware that the "Irony" alert meter is pegged as a result of this post.