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$750 Nl Borgata Tourney; Kk Tough Decision Early


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Yesterday's $750 tourney at the Borgata. The tourney started slowly. There were only 4 players at my table for the first few hands then had a 5th sat in and the sixth after about 10 minutes. The sixth player will be the villian in this post. I raise that because his first hand after sitting down was as follows: The blinds are 25-50 and the UTG raises to $200 and he calls on the button. The flop is Q-6-8 rainbow. The original raiser (OR) bets $400 into the $475 pot and he calls. The turn is a 2 keeping the board rainbow. The OR bets $700 into the $1,275 pot and he raise to $1,800 and the OR calls. The turn is a blank and the OR checks and he moves in (we started with $6K in chips). He gets a call after a long deliberation and wins wit Q-6 of clubs for two pair (the other joker called him with K-Q).Now onto the hand in question. We are just hitting the one hour mark (the announcement was just made that blinds will go up to 50-100 on the next hand). I had been playing tight, but picked a few spots and had $6,900 in chips (from the $6K starting point). The villian had about $14K and had been calling a lot pre-flop. The villian is in the UTG+1 and limps for $50. three spots later I look down at KK and raise to $250 (fully expecting the villian to call). The player next to me calls and the villian calls. The pot has $825.The flop comes 4-6-7 with two spades. The villian checks and I bet $600. The next player folds and the villian check-raises to $1,800. Having seen him win the hand with the Q-6 suited and turn over a missed flush draw with 2 unconnected cards as well, I am now figuring he could have many hands including a set, two pair, st8/st8 draw/flush and st8draw, just flush draw and paired flush draw or nothing (including a smaller pair) and just reraising my continuation bet to see if I will fold A-K or something like that.After thinking for about 45 seconds I decide to just call. My thinking was that if the turn was a blank and he checked I would push. The turn was an offsuit 5 now making the board; 4-5-6-7 with two spades. He immediately pushed. This push obviously concerned me since I would have done that if he checked. I thought about the hand again and went over the way he was playing. I was looking at him, looking at the flop, the ceiling, him again, etc.... I started to notice that each time I looked back at him he was staring at me deeper and deeper and appeared to be getting closer to me as well (it might have been paranoia on my part, but I felt like he was almost sitting on the lap of the player next to him). After about three minutes (it seemed like a lifetime) I decided to call, in part based on my read and in part based on him acting like he was tough and trying to bully me out (although the only hand I could beat right now was the flush draw (obviously only with one or no pair)).Here are the questions/requests for thoughts and info1) Thoughts on pre-flop raise (the blinds were going up the next hand so $250 will be cheap to play on the next hand)2) Thoughts on the flop. Should I fold to the check-raise and look for a better spot?3) Thoughts on risking it all hoping my read of a flush draw was right?4) Anything else is appreictaed as well.

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I like the amount raised PF, sounds A-ok to me. I think the optimal strategy would be to figure out if ur ahead of behind on the flop and move in or fold accordingly. But, you were unsure and decided to take a card off to gain more info. Calling his all-in on the turn is primarily a reading situation- does it have it or not? You made your read and went with it which I think is good. There doesn't seem to be much you can beat on the turn except a flush draw like you said. Sounds like he has been playing LAG which makes me more apt to call as well.

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Yeah, pf raise is OK. I might have just pushed after he cr on the flop though. If you are gonna call that check raise right there, you've already committed yourself to the hand. So why give him a free card?
+1. These things aren't deep enough stack wise to call the C/R.
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+1. These things aren't deep enough stack wise to call the C/R.
My thought on calling the CR instead of pushing was that if my read was right and he had a flush draw, especially with a pair or the Ace of spades he would have the odds to call my push given there were two cards to come. However, if a blank came down on the turn and he calls my push, there would be almost no hand that I was ahead of that the call would be right at slightly less than 2:1. It could be close, but not right. Of course I could be beat already so the turn could save me money.The only hand I feared in the end (right or wrong) was 8-8 which would give him the str8 and might make sense to reraise with on the flop given his chip stack, but the only reason to push then was if he was afraid of a flush draw from me which would need to be two big spades given my raise when I could have limped. If I have AK of spades I probably push his CR. Of course if he has the Ace of Spades he knows I do not have AK of spades. (Just some of the thougths going through my head at the time.)
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My thought on calling the CR instead of pushing was that if my read was right and he had a flush draw, especially with a pair or the Ace of spades he would have the odds to call my push given there were two cards to come. However, if a blank came down on the turn and he calls my push, there would be almost no hand that I was ahead of that the call would be right at slightly less than 2:1. It could be close, but not right. Of course I could be beat already so the turn could save me money.The only hand I feared in the end (right or wrong) was 8-8 which would give him the str8 and might make sense to reraise with on the flop given his chip stack, but the only reason to push then was if he was afraid of a flush draw from me which would need to be two big spades given my raise when I could have limped. If I have AK of spades I probably push his CR. Of course if he has the Ace of Spades he knows I do not have AK of spades. (Just some of the thougths going through my head at the time.)
My point was mainly that the cards are irrelevant once he c/r's the flop given the stack sizes and the speedy nature of these tourneys. He's pushing the turn no matter what I would imagine. I'm a much bigger fan of either pushing the flop and having 2 ways to win, or mucking to the c/r (obv. very read dependant) rather than calling off my stack on the turn in this case. You're just prolonging the decision for all your chips for one more street and will end up calling them off rather than reversing the polarity on the flop.
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My point was mainly that the cards are irrelevant once he c/r's the flop given the stack sizes and the speedy nature of these tourneys. He's pushing the turn no matter what I would imagine. I'm a much bigger fan of either pushing the flop and having 2 ways to win, or mucking to the c/r (obv. very read dependant) rather than calling off my stack on the turn in this case. You're just prolonging the decision for all your chips for one more street and will end up calling them off rather than reversing the polarity on the flop.
Good advice. The structure is not that bad any more. $6,000, one hour levels starting with 25-50 and no ante until the 5th level. You do need to get chips when the opportunity is there. But, to your point, If I fold on the flop to the CR I have $6,000 chips left and room to move given the structure is not rediculously quick.
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Obviously, I would assume that your read is better than mine since you were there and I wasn't. But this is a pretty bad flop to get against the opponent we're up against. I hate going broke with a pair, even if they're kings.I think I'm beat here a pretty good percentage of the time. I think, when I have two pair or better, I'm going to double through a clown like this, but if I go to war with a pair, I'm not going to come out ahead very often. Loose players make their money because people get too impatient.I would either be folding to the check raise or moving allin.This would be dependent on my read, and if I couldn't get a good read, I'd fold and wait for a better opportunity.

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