Top Pair Facing River Raise

[Citizen Erased 0]

No reads on opponent - only just joined table (had left with that $50 before, and villain wasn't at table then)Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)UTG ($31.80)UTG+1 ($23.65)MP1 ($62.60)MP2 ($27.30)MP3 ($24.15)CO ($6.35)Button ($44.45)Hero ($35)BB ($14.90)Preflop: Hero is SB with , . 2 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, 3 folds, Button calls $0.25, Hero completes, BB checks.Flop: ($1) , , (4 players)Hero bets $1, BB folds, MP1 calls $1, Button folds.Turn: ($3) (2 players)Hero bets $2.25, MP1 calls $2.25.River: ($7.50) (2 players)Hero bets $4.50, MP1 raises to $9, Hero ???

[rdtedm 0]

I think you make a mistake in betting the river here. Flop and turn are fine, but I think the river is a check/call, at best. Villain limps from MP1 so a king that beats ours is definitely part of his range, as are sets. When I'm OOP against a 2x flat caller, I'll probably slow down on the river for pot control. As played, youre getting slightly worse than 3:1 to call, so I call and see what he's playing like this.

[ActionFalko 0]

I think you make a mistake in betting the river here. Flop and turn are fine, but I think the river is a check/call, at best. Villain limps from MP1 so a king that beats ours is definitely part of his range, as are sets. When I'm OOP against a 2x flat caller, I'll probably slow down on the river for pot control. As played, youre getting slightly worse than 3:1 to call, so I call and see what he's playing like this.

On the river it's too late to use pot control. I check the turn to keep it small. Maybe that induces a bluff which you can call then or he bets something which you beat..BUt to bet the turn is a mistake IMO. Check call the turn. And check /call SMALL river bet or fold to a river bet, because most Kx hands which you beat would check behind.Some players would fold KTo OOP but I dont blame you for completing. But as played I fold the river. A checkraise on the river indicates real strength and since you shoed no weakness so far, dump it...

[crankin 0]

This feels like one of:1) 86 -- Seems reasonable. He lucked out on the river and wants to get some extra value.2) A set -- He was sandbagging, which is common at these levels.3) K6 -- Definitely possible at these levels, particularly if its suited. Again, he lucked out on the river.4) A bluff -- This doesn't seem terribly likely, unless he's played with you a bunch and knows you'll fold here.5) 23 -- I suppose this is possible, but he certainly played badly all around if this is the case.This really seems like either situation #1 or #2. In any event, I'm pretty sure you're beat. However, it may still be beneficial to call and see how he plays whatever he's got.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

Minraise is for value. You probably have to call, but it's likely he has a set or 2pair with K-XsoootedNot much that you beat raises you here, and he can't expect you to fold to a minraise... this is an easy fold IMO

[rdtedm 0]

On the river it's too late to use pot control. I check the turn to keep it small. Maybe that induces a bluff which you can call then or he bets something which you beat..BUt to bet the turn is a mistake IMO. Check call the turn. And check /call SMALL river bet or fold to a river bet, because most Kx hands which you beat would check behind.Some players would fold KTo OOP but I dont blame you for completing. But as played I fold the river. A checkraise on the river indicates real strength and since you shoed no weakness so far, dump it...

It's never to late for pot control.C/C after the flop also seems like a reasonable line, but it also lets villain draw to two pair for cheap when we're ahead.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Hero ???

OK, so where we find ourselves, it's like 5:1 and we have to pair, broadway kicker ... we call this. To prevent this from happening, either overbet the turn or check it and see what villain does. I like to test unknown villains a little bit.

[ActionFalko 0]

OK, so where we find ourselves, it's like 5:1 and we have to pair, broadway kicker ... we call this.

I dont even call for 20:1 if I know I'm beaten. And here Im def. beaten. The only reason to call here is to get a read on how he plays certain hands, which could be valuable for later hands. But please dont call for pott odds when you know youre beaten.

[rdtedm 0]

I dont even call for 20:1 if I know I'm beaten. And here Im def. beaten. The only reason to call here is to get a read on how he plays certain hands, which could be valuable for later hands. But please dont call for pott odds when you know youre beaten.

We never "know" we're beaten unless we can see villain's hand or if we have the nut low. That's why we have to use pot odds, assign a range to villain, and call if we beat that range X% of the time. Please don't say "ignore pot odds" and then justify why.

[mtdesmoines 3]

We never "know" we're beaten unless we can see villain's hand or if we have the nut low. That's why we have to use pot odds, assign a range to villain, and call if we beat that range X% of the time. Please don't say "ignore pot odds" and then justify why.

Thank you for getting right on this.

[ActionFalko 0]

We never "know" we're beaten unless we can see villain's hand or if we have the nut low. That's why we have to use pot odds, assign a range to villain, and call if we beat that range X% of the time. Please don't say "ignore pot odds" and then justify why.

I dont say ignore pott odds. But here we are winning almost zero times. I just wanted to underline this in a liitle aggressive way. Of course I call getting 20:1... lolBut in this case getting 4 or 5:1 is nerver enough... after a 2 PS bets and a river bet getting minraised with KT

[mtdesmoines 3]

I dont say ignore pott odds. But here we are winning almost zero times. I just wanted to underline this in a liitle aggressive way. Of course I call getting 20:1... lolBut in this case getting 4 or 5:1 is nerver enough... after a 2 PS bets and a river bet getting minraised with KT

I don't know about online poker, but you'd be AMAZED the number of times second pair, ace kicker shows up here in a live game. Just sayin ...

[sabes99 0]

for $4.50 here, against an unknown villain, i think it's worth it just to call him down and see what he has...i sort of straddle the fence between actionfalko's point about knowing you're beaten, and the huge odds...if i am very strongly sure i am beaten, then i will fold this hand, but here we have an unknown villain...you don't know what he plays like, he could be making a random weird bluff for all we know...i would call and store away that info

[rdtedm 0]

I think (although this shouldnt be a large deciding factor in a call), that if we fold here it basically tells the table that we're either extremely easy to take off hands, or that we were on a straight bluff. I call here because:1) We're getting the odds to do so.2) I want to see what villain plays like this.3) Protect my table image (we can muck if he shows us a better hand, since he put the last bet into the pot).

[ActionFalko 0]

I don't know about online poker, but you'd be AMAZED the number of times second pair, ace kicker shows up here in a live game. Just sayin ...

Really??!?!?! Unfortunately there is almost no LIVE Poker in Germany. What a shame I think I have to move to America... What a great country

[ActionFalko 0]

I think (although this shouldnt be a large deciding factor in a call), that if we fold here it basically tells the table that we're either extremely easy to take off hands, or that we were on a straight bluff. I call here because:1) We're getting the odds to do so.2) I want to see what villain plays like this.3) Protect my table image (we can muck if he shows us a better hand, since he put the last bet into the pot).

Thats a good point, I franlky havent thought so far. Good point.