Dn Is A Fiscal Conservative?

[El Guapo 10]

What you say is true IF you can afford insurance in the first place. For those that can't afford the insurance they don't get the break that insurance companies get so they get charged the full amount. True, many don't pay the full amount, but that's what they are charged. If you and your wife both worked full time jobs at minimum wage, paid rent, ate food, etc. than you wouldn't be able to afford insurance. If something were to happen to either of you... you are on the streets. It's sad but true. The guy who did Super Size me also did a series show called 30 days, and in one episode him and his wife lived on minimum wage for 30 days. It was an awesome doc.

That was a good show, but if you have an emergency you will not be turned down for health care. When my wife and I were first dating10 years ago, she was 18 no health insurance, and she had a kidney stone, she went to the emergency room, it was like 15 grand, they negotiated it down to $4,000 grand and it took her a year to pay it off.There are three bill rates, what the dr bills the insurance company, what the insruance company will pay, and a cash rate, the cash rate is a lot lower than the billed rate and most drs and hospitals will work with you via payment plans and reduced rates.And I am sorry if I am a little bit cynical, but if you are living on minimum wage, get a better job. Even in highschool I made more than minimum wage and I worked at a pizza place and Safeway. I made 6.75 an hour at safeway and got full benefits, I did not need them because I was still in highschool and college and was still under my parents.

[scram 1]

There are indeed a lot of people who cannot afford health insurance.There are also a lot of people who "cannot afford health insurance" yet have XBoxes, new car payments and make FTP deposits.Really, this is like any other issue of personal economics. 30% of it is socially dictated, 70% of it is a matter of personal choice.

[scram 1]

They are part of the United Nations and if anything would favor us after all we created the United Nations.

HAHA..............................AAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

[El Guapo 10]

Is that a joke? They are a impartial organization dedicated to improving world health. They are part of the United Nations and if anything would favor us after all we created the United Nations.Besides the fact that insurance company's look for ways to deny coverage. Lets all applaud a health care system dedicated to making as much money as possible.

I cannot believe that you actually used the United Nations as your baseline for what is in our best interests, that is laughable at best. Where is BalloonGuy when you need him?

Word DN. Canada doesn't have the perfect system but its decades ahead of the American heath care system. If I get in a car accident it'll fall on my parents to either pay my medical bills or become bankrupt and I hate having that burdon my shoulders but I cant afford insurance.

Why would it fall on your parents? If it is your medical bill it is you that has to pay it. Your parents have nothing to do with it.If you cannot affor health insurance and it is obviously that important to you then a. get a better job, one that provides insurance for youor b. Cut back somewhere else, do you have cable, you obviously have internet connection, do you have a cell phone? If you got rid of all three you could afford health insurance.

[whatgreatis 0]

Why would it fall on them? I'm 19 and have no assists that could be liquidated besides a car. My parents would obviously help out as much as they could.

[El Guapo 10]

Why would it fall on them? I'm 19 and have no assists that could be liquidated besides a car. My parents would obviously help out as much as they could.

So buy some effing health insurance! You could file bankruptcy if something happened horrible, not optimal but an option, remember how I said emergency insurance is cheap, at 19 its going to be like $40 a month, I think you can come up with that.Are you in college, if so you should be on your parents plan until you are 23.

[whatgreatis 0]

So buy some effing health insurance! You could file bankruptcy if something happened horrible, not optimal but an option, remember how I said emergency insurance is cheap, at 19 its going to be like $40 a month, I think you can come up with that.Are you in college, if so you should be on your parents plan until you are 23.

I'm not in college. I'm a intern journalist for the Detroit Lakes Newspaper which gives me no benefits but a great job. I'm on my way to a job that will provide insurance but I'm not there yet. I've been working there since I was 17 but I'm not sure when I'll be moved from intern to a regular employee.

[antistuff 0]

There are indeed a lot of people who cannot afford health insurance.There are also a lot of people who "cannot afford health insurance" yet have XBoxes, new car payments and make FTP deposits.Really, this is like any other issue of personal economics. 30% of it is socially dictated, 70% of it is a matter of personal choice.

i dont see what the second group of people has to do with the first. very clever slight of hand, you should be a magician.

[El Guapo 10]

I'm not in college. I'm a intern journalist for the Detroit Lakes Newspaper which gives me no benefits but a great job. I'm on my way to a job that will provide insurance but I'm not there yet. I've been working there since I was 17 but I'm not sure when I'll be moved from intern to a regular employee.

Thats great, good for you. Keep up the good work, I honestly hope that works out for you, but as I said if this health insurance thing is that much of a concern to you right now you have options. I do not know what your schedule is like, but if you work 80 hours a month at starbucks(it works out to be 16 hours a week, my wife did this while going to school 40 hours a week because she has kidney problems) you get full coverage, and there are many other situations just like that out there.I realize you are young but the more you take your life into your own hands and do not count on someone else to help you out, i.e. governemnt, the better off you are going to be.

[El Guapo 10]

There are indeed a lot of people who cannot afford health insurance.There are also a lot of people who "cannot afford health insurance" yet have XBoxes, new car payments and make FTP deposits.Really, this is like any other issue of personal economics. 30% of it is socially dictated, 70% of it is a matter of personal choice.

i dont see what the second group of people has to do with the first. very clever slight of hand, you should be a magician.

Too many people do not prioritize correct and it takes something major to change that, in fact after my wife and I bought our house and got married, there was a short time where we had no coverage, we happened to get pregnant, for it not be a pre-existing condition we had to write a group policy on us through her business to get covered, which was more expensive than a regular policy would have been, but the whole pregnancy and child birth was covered and we switched the month after she delivered and learned our lesson of procrastination. I think scram is saying that they people with $700 PS3's and gamefly accounts who say they cannot afford health insurance are hypocrties.

[antistuff 0]

b. Cut back somewhere else, do you have cable, you obviously have internet connection, do you have a cell phone? If you got rid of all three you could afford health insurance.

this is an unreasonable way of looking at things. maybe there is a decent number of people who if they cut back all of their spending to only food clothes and rent they could afford insurance. lets just go back to serfdom.

[antistuff 0]

I think scram is saying that they people with $700 PS3's and gamefly accounts who say they cannot afford health insurance are hypocrties.

i wont disagree with that. and for the record i am sort of playing devils advocate here.

[El Guapo 10]

No worries, w/o devils advocate there would be no discussion. and in regards to cutting back, I understand not everyone can, but a lot of people do not think of tv and such as luxury items because they are so enganed into our society.

[akoff 0]

I cannot believe that you actually used the United Nations as your baseline for what is in our best interests, that is laughable at best. Where is BalloonGuy when you need him? Cut back somewhere else, do you have cable, you obviously have internet connection, do you have a cell phone? If you got rid of all three you could afford health insurance.

[Dr_Jeff 0]

Socialized medicine will put private practices out of business. Your only choice would be go to one of the large groups such as Kaiser or Jefferson. Also, the days of Doc's making insane amounts of money are over. Many GP's barely break the 6 figures in large groups, and private practices are usually in the $90k range. If and when we go to socialized medicine, I konw Myself and several of my collegues in the area, will be leaving the field. It's hard enough of a struggle now, and having the government control payment, would be too much. Right now, Blue cross blue shield is on a campaign to recover money that they have already paid. They are now claiming a lot of the procedures that we do as experimental, although we've done them for years. I personally just got a letter requesting that I repay them $35k by Sept. 10, because of this reason. I've been doing these procedures for the 10 years since I graduated, but suddenly they're experimental, and they have the "right" to go back 2 years and ask for the money back. The medical profession is not what it used to be. You can make a lot more with the BA in CIS, and you'll owe a lot less in student loans.

[hblask 1]

10s of millions...pennies compared to those completely useless things. it must be nice out there in intellectual land. hows the weather, sunny and mild? when's the last time you didn't go to the doctor because you couldn't afford it? thats right, didn't think so.

In the countries with socialized medicine, you are more likely to die waiting for heart surgery than to get the surgery. In England the current waiting list for gynecological surgeries is over a year. Try explain to the person who died for lack of bypass surgery, or the woman who is suffering from endometriosis for over a year that their system is a success.In this country, if you need care, you get it, one way or another. If you can't afford it, there are plenty of free clinics to help you out.

[hblask 1]

Check out the World Health Organization's rank of country's with the best health care systems. Who's on top? France? and with socialized medicine?!Whether you want to admit it or not its the best system in the world. My mistake about Cuba being above us but they are only two below us.

Once again, these are self-report numbers. It is the nature of bureaucrats to inflate their own numbers.There is a very simple real world test for who has the best care. Where do the world's richest people get their care? I live in Minnesota, so I can tell you: the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN. Johns-Hopkins also gets a fair share of the world's wealthy.Nobody travels to France to get healthcare, as their system is on the verge of collapse and, even with their crappy care, is running huge unfunded deficits.

[hblask 1]

Is that a joke? They are a impartial organization dedicated to improving world health. They are part of the United Nations and if anything would favor us after all we created the United Nations.Besides the fact that insurance company's look for ways to deny coverage. Lets all applaud a health care system dedicated to making as much money as possible.

So let me get this straight.... a large, socialist organization that wants more funding for socialist programs rates socialist healthcare high, despite all the real-world evidence to the contrary, and we should take their word for it? As they say on the internet, LOL.

[whatgreatis 0]

In the countries with socialized medicine, you are more likely to die waiting for heart surgery than to get the surgery. In England the current waiting list for gynecological surgeries is over a year. Try explain to the person who died for lack of bypass surgery, or the woman who is suffering from endometriosis for over a year that their system is a success.In this country, if you need care, you get it, one way or another. If you can't afford it, there are plenty of free clinics to help you out.

Sir you are without facts. In countrys with universal care if you have an emergancy you see a doctor. Its not like in the United States when that Florida women died in the waiting room. It's true that it can take a while for non-emergancy surgerys but if you NEED to get help in a timely fashion you'll get it.Dont get me wrong, I believe the market system is great for toys, cars, beverage drinks, whatever, but captalism has shown a poor record when it comes to caring about peoples health and not just about whats most profietable. I want all insurence companies gone and replace them with a goverment plan. Its terrible that they look for ways to deny you coverage just so they can make that extra dollar. By the way, they are legally forced to deny coverage to as many people as they possible can. Thats just a terrible system.

[hblask 1]

Socialized medicine will put private practices out of business. Your only choice would be go to one of the large groups such as Kaiser or Jefferson. Also, the days of Doc's making insane amounts of money are over. Many GP's barely break the 6 figures in large groups, and private practices are usually in the $90k range. If and when we go to socialized medicine, I konw Myself and several of my collegues in the area, will be leaving the field. It's hard enough of a struggle now, and having the government control payment, would be too much. Right now, Blue cross blue shield is on a campaign to recover money that they have already paid. They are now claiming a lot of the procedures that we do as experimental, although we've done them for years. I personally just got a letter requesting that I repay them $35k by Sept. 10, because of this reason. I've been doing these procedures for the 10 years since I graduated, but suddenly they're experimental, and they have the "right" to go back 2 years and ask for the money back. The medical profession is not what it used to be. You can make a lot more with the BA in CIS, and you'll owe a lot less in student loans.

Anyone who supports a single payer system needs to read this bolded part a couple hundred times. My family doctor from when I was growing up wrote a book about his career. He said Medicare/Medicaid ended his career. Before that, he could negotiate prices based on ability to pay, or give free care if necessary. Once the government got involved, he could not charge different people different amounts, and could no longer support his practice.Anyone see the trend there?

[hblask 1]

Sir you are without facts. In countrys with universal care if you have an emergancy you see a doctor. Its not like in the United States when that Florida women died in the waiting room. It's true that it can take a while for non-emergancy surgerys but if you NEED to get help in a timely fashion you'll get it.Dont get me wrong, I believe the market system is great for toys, cars, beverage drinks, whatever, but captalism has shown a poor record when it comes to caring about peoples health and not just about whats most profietable. I want all insurence companies gone and replace them with a goverment plan. Its terrible that they look for ways to deny you coverage just so they can make that extra dollar. By the way, they are legally forced to deny coverage to as many people as they possible can. Thats just a terrible system.

This is a lie. You are more likely to die of a heart condition in socialized countries than to get treatment for it. This is a fact. A sad fact of central planning.Socialism is an experiment that failed, and failed badly, everywhere it has been tried. Every country with socialized medicine is running huge budget deficits, has inferior care and huge waiting lists. Americans will not put up with it.If we would instead open the medical market in the US to competition, prices would drop rapidly. Break the AMA monopoly on providers, break the FDA monopoly on drug access, and eliminate laws limiting what can and cannot be written into an insurance policy, and prices will drop so that everyone will have medical care that makes sense for them.

[whatgreatis 0]

So let me get this straight.... a large, socialist organization that wants more funding for socialist programs rates socialist healthcare high, despite all the real-world evidence to the contrary, and we should take their word for it? As they say on the internet, LOL.

How is the UN a socialist orginization? It has no political aspirations. Its just a world body where all the countrys are represented. I think those numbers I put up are a year old. I believe that Sweden now has the best medical care in the world but they also run universal health care so my point still stands. America is still wayyyyyy down on the list and almost every country with universal health care is above it.

[whatgreatis 0]

And I'm from MN too. Do you play at Shooting Star ever? Lets take this discussion onto the felt

[hblask 1]

How is the UN a socialist orginization? It has no political aspirations. Its just a world body where all the countrys are represented. I think those numbers I put up are a year old. I believe that Sweden now has the best medical care in the world but they also run universal health care so my point still stands. America is still wayyyyyy down on the list and almost every country with universal health care is above it.

By what measures is US care way down? The only one I ever see is 'percentage of GDP'? What about 'average wait time for a procedure'? What about 'not paying for it if you don't want to'? What about 'latest high tech equipment available on short notice'? There are thousands of ways to measure healthcare, but the most important one is this: how people vote with their feet and their dollars. On that one, the US wins by a landslide.

And I'm from MN too. Do you play at Shooting Star ever? Lets take this discussion onto the felt

I don't know where that is. I'm in the Twin Cities, I've been to Canterbury a few times, but only recently started playing limit, so I haven't been there much.

[Mikey Ravioli 0]

The irony is its the same people who think that the American government is inept at handling the things that they currently have on their plate that think they should take over health care.I'll stick with the system the way it is thank you. If I don't like my doctor or my hospital, I am free to go find another one. I can see specialists and get second opinions. If someone thinks that the government can't even handle the aftermath of a hurricane or a war is going to be suddenly much more competent when they are making decisions about my health what are they basing it on?Either they are idiots or they aren't. You can't pick and choose.