Lightning Bolt

[mtdesmoines 2]

Game: live $1/$2/$300Hero in LP: sitting with about $1,000 -- wakes up with AKoVillain on button: sitting with about $750It's 4:30 a.m. and this table rocks for ten minutes, then goes dead for 10 minutes, then wakes up again and rocks some more. Villain is unknown to hero, and came to table about 45 minutes ago. Showed a nut tree top or something like that for a nice pot and that's all the hero knows.So someone in EP raises to $10 .. there's two callers, hero re-raises to $45. villain calls and folds around and flop comes heads up. Flop is KQ4 rainbow. hero bets $75, villain calls. Turn is 8 (KQ48 rainbow), hero bets $100, villain calls. River is a Q (KQ48Q rainbow), hero bets $100, villain insta-says, "all in" Hero ?

[pokerinc 0]

river bet looks weak, why 100 again unless you're trying to induce that exact move? check/call somewhere around the pot sounds like the play for me here with no read.edit, turn bet's too small also. bet 125 at least.Also is this english? It's 4:30 a.m. and this table rocks for ten minutes, then goes dead for 10 minutes, then wakes up again and rocks some more. Villain is unknown to hero, and came to table about 45 minutes ago. Showed a nut tree top or something like that for a nice pot and that's all the hero knows.

[mtdesmoines 2]

river bet looks weak, why 100 again .... bet 125 at least.tell me you didn't do that ... anyway, that $100 river bet commits villain to around 40% of his stack when he holds 2+ buyins in a deepstack game. Perspective.Also is this english? It's 4:30 a.m. and this table rocks for ten minutes, then goes dead for 10 minutes, then wakes up again and rocks some more. Villain is unknown to hero, and came to table about 45 minutes ago. Showed a nut tree top or something like that for a nice pot and that's all the hero knows.yeah. it is.

[pokerinc 0]

well you've really hacked up my post in your quoting. My saying 125 is for the TURN not the river, my line on the river was check call up around a pot sized bet, also a 100 river bet represents 20% or so of villian's remaining stack, I guess by that time he'll have commited 40% overall but I'm not sure that comes into play in his head when thinking about his move as this is cash game not tourney, I still don't understand, what was your reason for betting 100 into a 450 pot?

[Scott3705 0]

I'm not sure I get the blocking bet so much. I'm not sure what you're putting him on that you think you can get value from. Kj? The river should be a scare card in addition to the obvious A and 9. So I think I'd rather check/call, then weak-betting the river. I don't know... maybe he's suicidal but usually 1/2 players that accumulate stacks like that like to hold on to thier wins and don't make crazy bluffs like this against another big stack.

[No_Neck 0]

I think this is a fold for sure... Also I usually check call against unknowns here or check fold depending on the bet.

[mtdesmoines 2]

well you've really hacked up my post in your quoting. My saying 125 is for the TURN not the river,

What's the difference? I bet $100 on the turn.

[mtdesmoines 2]

I'm not sure I get the blocking bet so much. I'm not sure what you're putting him on that you think you can get value from. Kj? The river should be a scare card in addition to the obvious A and 9. So I think I'd rather check/call, then weak-betting the river. I don't know... maybe he's suicidal but usually 1/2 players that accumulate stacks like that like to hold on to thier wins and don't make crazy bluffs like this against another big stack.

Are you talking about the river bet? Let me ask you this: why did you interpret the river bet as a blocking bet?

[mtdesmoines 2]

I think this is a fold for sure... Also I usually check call against unknowns here or check fold depending on the bet.

Why do you check-call the river? Did you think villain was calling down with a Q?

[tskillz187 0]

Showed a nut tree top or something like that for a nice pot and that's all the hero knows.

What the hell is a nut tree top.

Are you talking about the river bet? Let me ask you this: why did you interpret the river bet as a blocking bet?

It looks like a thin value bet to me. I don't particularly like thin value bets against unknowns, obviously they are very effective against calling stations, I also don't like thin value bets OOP, at least in position you know that they gave up the option of betting on the river.It looks like the hands you could have are AA, AK, KK, KQ, QQ or maybe 10J and you missed and threw out a weak value bluff bet on river. If he insta all ins me I have to think he has me beat here, generally the quicker the play someone makes the weaker they are because they are trying to feign strength, but with no real reads I'm not jumping in with TPTK.

[NoBBiR 0]

You check call because the villian isn't calling you down with absolute garbage (99%). He does have something. Betting 100 is asking to be shoved on, while c/c also induces a bluff, and protects you from getting it all in when you are WB. And if that 100 isn't a blocking bet, than it is the stupidest bet ever. If the guy is not a complete moron, he's shoving the river with ATC because the bet is so thin. Not only that, but the villian wakes up with a much better hand than AK here a lot. 44 is very reasonable for his line. Unless you have some massive live tell, I'd never call the river. If you were beating him, well you got outplayed.

[mtdesmoines 2]

1. What the hell is a nut tree top.2. It looks like a thin value bet to me. I don't particularly like thin value bets against unknowns, obviously they are very effective against calling stations, I also don't like thin value bets OOP, at least in position you know that they gave up the option of betting on the river.It looks like the hands you could have are AA, AK, KK, KQ, QQ or maybe 10J and you missed and threw out a weak value bluff bet on river. If he insta all ins me I have to think he has me beat here, generally the quicker the play someone makes the weaker they are because they are trying to feign strength, but with no real reads I'm not jumping in with TPTK.

1. AKQJT for the nuts. Broadway no paired board, no flush.

[GoCryWolfe 0]

What the hell is a nut tree top.

QFTBut, as to the river action, I don't like it... and as far as your read, no one really knows what the above means, so therefore I have to ask what you viewed your river bet as? A value bet? A blocker bet? I mean you've been at the table with this guy for 45 minutes, which easily is 20 hands, if not more... so you can get a general read, even if it's not a true read or a helpful read.I think check/call is the best line here, unless you forsure have a dead-on read that you are ahead.

[Scott3705 0]

Are you talking about the river bet? Let me ask you this: why did you interpret the river bet as a blocking bet?

Cause it's small and you can't expect many hands that you beat to call you. It could be a feign block bet, but you don't have a strong read on him that makes you able to expect him to come over the top of you here with regularity.

[GoCryWolfe 0]

Are you talking about the river bet? Let me ask you this: why did you interpret the river bet as a blocking bet?

Do you really see this as a value bet? As has been said, there isn't much you beat that will call.

[Lavitz 0]

Fold river. River bet is fine though. Only missed draw is 10J and he would have to have a donktastic read to demolish your blocking bet with that and you actually gain value from some Kx hands.

[Scott3705 0]

Fold river. River bet is fine though. Only missed draw is 10J and he would have to have a donktastic read to demolish your blocking bet with that and you actually gain value from some Kx hands.

Adjust for 1/2 live, but what type of Kx hands cold calll the three bet preflop?

[mtdesmoines 2]

Adjust for 1/2 live, but what type of Kx hands cold calll the three bet preflop?

EDIT:QK, KJ and KT, and AQ might do it and then come along for the ride after the flop.

[Scott3705 0]

Literally, almost any K and AQ.

I think the OP has been smudged in translation. We have no real read on him. (Meaning we don't think he's capable of folding AA on any board but not stupid enough to call off with middle pair for over 2 buy-ins.) Maybe I'm wrong, but my default read for average 200nl player is that he doesn't call me with k2 often given the 3-bet. I would say he calls with Kj and Kq suited but i just don't see any other king besides that.Edit: Meaning of which that if you don't have a read, you shouldn't assume he's awful just because at he's at 1/2... especially as the pot is getting bigger.

[mtdesmoines 2]

I think the OP has been smudged in translation. We have no real read on him. (Meaning we don't think he's capable of folding AA on any board but not stupid enough to call off with middle pair for over 2 buy-ins.) Maybe I'm wrong, but my default read for average 200nl player is that he doesn't call me with k2 often given the 3-bet. I would say he calls with Kj and Kq suited but i just don't see any other king besides that.Edit: Meaning of which that if you don't have a read, you shouldn't assume he's awful just because at he's at 1/2... especially as the pot is getting bigger.

My read was that I was ahead at the turn, and he was fishing. JT does this. I see in retrospect that if that's my read, I probably need to bet bigger on the turn.

[Royal_Tour 0]

havent read anything, but man.whats with the large re-pop preflop with AKo in a 1/2 game?a repop to 25. is just fine. sometimes i even just smooth call. depending on the raiser and my position.also. i hate the constant barreling. I also dont throw bets out there without really knowing where i'm at.The object to poker is to trick your opponents into paying you off. right?i mean, why are you firing 75 here? cuz u have TPTK? so ur betting ur hand to protect it and scoop the pot? whats the point in even hitting TP with AK if u bet it as strong as u would if u were bluffin a c-bet?how would u play this flop if u had KK, and hit top set?

[NoBBiR 0]

havent read anything, but man.whats with the large re-pop preflop with AKo in a 1/2 game?a repop to 25. is just fine. sometimes i even just smooth call. depending on the raiser and my position.also. i hate the constant barreling. I also dont throw bets out there without really knowing where i'm at.The object to poker is to trick your opponents into paying you off. right?i mean, why are you firing 75 here? cuz u have TPTK? so ur betting ur hand to protect it and scoop the pot? whats the point in even hitting TP with AK if u bet it as strong as u would if u were bluffin a c-bet?how would u play this flop if u had KK, and hit top set?

I agree that the repop with AKo in a live 1/2 game to 45 is a big too big. I like a smaller reraise or a call more than a large reraise.Betting the flop is fine, and I don't mind firing the turn again, but you have no idea where you're at at all in this hand after the flop hit, which put you in a very precarious situation and led to the result in the hand. Feeling out your opponent is a little bit more key than simply throwing around money because you're the big stack.

[Royal_Tour 0]

I agree that the repop with AKo in a live 1/2 game to 45 is a big too big. I like a smaller reraise or a call more than a large reraise.Betting the flop is fine, and I don't mind firing the turn again, but you have no idea where you're at at all in this hand after the flop hit, which put you in a very precarious situation and led to the result in the hand. Feeling out your opponent is a little bit more key than simply throwing around money because you're the big stack.

the biggest issue is the OOP here IMO.

[mtdesmoines 2]

havent read anything, but man.1) whats with the large re-pop preflop with AKo in a 1/2 game?a repop to 25. is just fine. sometimes i even just smooth call. depending on the raiser and my position.2) also. i hate the constant barreling. I also dont throw bets out there without really knowing where i'm at.The object to poker is to trick your opponents into paying you off. right?i mean, why are you firing 75 here? cuz u have TPTK? so ur betting ur hand to protect it and scoop the pot? whats the point in even hitting TP with AK if u bet it as strong as u would if u were bluffin a c-bet?3) how would u play this flop if u had KK, and hit top set?

1) we're all + $600 in a late $1/2 game; basically we're playing somewhere between $2/5 and $5/10. Besides, if I'm big stack, why not push people around PF and TID? 2) I don't think it's 'barrelling.' I think I'm ahead by a mile. I want to put money in this pot.3) I don't know how to play sets. I don't hit them. Especially with KK ........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... OK ... honestly, I play it about the same. I don't understand people not wanting money in the pot when they're ahead. The only draw on the board is the straight draw, but why slow down?

[mtdesmoines 2]

the biggest issue is the OOP here IMO.

True. Why give free cards?