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The team representing FCP Strat:Clubbin' w/Pacman is disgusting!QB: Tony RomoWR: Anquan BoldinWR: Marques ColstonRB: Ladanian TomlinsonRB: Maurice Jones-DrewFlex: Cedric BensonTE: Tony GonzalezK: Neil RackersDEF: JacksonvilleBENCH:Braylon EdwardsBrandon JacksonBen RoethlisbergerMichael TurnerLeon WashingtonDrew CarterLJ Smith

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The team representing FCP Strat:Clubbin' w/Pacman is disgusting!QB: Tony RomoWR: Anquan BoldinWR: Marques ColstonRB: Ladanian TomlinsonRB: Maurice Jones-DrewFlex: Cedric BensonTE: Tony GonzalezK: Neil RackersDEF: JacksonvilleBENCH:Braylon EdwardsBrandon JacksonBen RoethlisbergerMichael TurnerLeon WashingtonDrew CarterLJ Smith
haha DNA4ever lives in Nashville, every time he goes out downtown he runs into Pacmannasty injury to Paris Warren at the end of the Bucs game
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Speaking of geology...I HAS A MOUNTAIN:mountainclimbinglol.jpg
I'll kill you, I swear to god. Say that word one more time...
The team representing FCP Strat:Clubbin' w/Pacman is disgusting!QB: Tony RomoWR: Anquan BoldinWR: Marques ColstonRB: Ladanian TomlinsonRB: Maurice Jones-DrewFlex: Cedric BensonTE: Tony GonzalezK: Neil RackersDEF: JacksonvilleBENCH:Braylon EdwardsBrandon JacksonBen RoethlisbergerMichael TurnerLeon WashingtonDrew CarterLJ Smith
Me likey :club:
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I'm too young for that shit.This was just a pic I took when I was down there in February.
I remember how we used to admire that horshoe way back in 2005. That is, when we had time between Odd Couple episodes.
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The team representing FCP Strat:Clubbin' w/Pacman is disgusting!QB: Tony RomoWR: Anquan BoldinWR: Marques ColstonRB: Ladanian TomlinsonRB: Maurice Jones-DrewFlex: Cedric BensonTE: Tony GonzalezK: Neil RackersDEF: JacksonvilleBENCH:Braylon EdwardsBrandon JacksonBen RoethlisbergerMichael TurnerLeon WashingtonDrew CarterLJ Smith
Pretty sick team, has to be a 10 team league
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I'm on tilt from reading Royal's strat thread (Insane in the SB Brain) where he's saying that he'll make money in the long run by underbetting a coordinated flop (he has top set) against 2 opponents so that they'll be more apt to call with their flush draw than fold it, even if they're getting the correct odds to be calling.I am pretty sure if I was having the conversation in person, I'd be out of breath yelling at him.

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I'm on tilt from reading Royal's strat thread (Insane in the SB Brain) where he's saying that he'll make money in the long run by underbetting a coordinated flop (he has top set) against 2 opponents so that they'll be more apt to call with their flush draw than fold it, even if they're getting the correct odds to be calling. I am pretty sure if I was having the conversation in person, I'd be out of breath yelling at him.
Everyone has a different ... style.
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I'm on tilt from reading Royal's strat thread (Insane in the SB Brain) where he's saying that he'll make money in the long run by underbetting a coordinated flop (he has top set) against 2 opponents so that they'll be more apt to call with their flush draw than fold it, even if they're getting the correct odds to be calling.I am pretty sure if I was having the conversation in person, I'd be out of breath yelling at him.
LOL. Sometimes you just let a thread die.
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Royal when he first started posting in NL tilted me a few times. I love how it says "I hate this spot" and I look in the thread and he flopped the nuts.... yeah that is a horrible spot.

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For your enjoyment....

Here is what you guys are missing. I want to double up. So where is the difference if the money goes in on both the flop and turn?
Here is what you're missing. Doubling up is not the point of playing poker. If not enough money goes in on the flop, then they're not making a mistake calling you. Maybe the turn blanks, you shove and they fold. Maybe the turn completes their flush, they shove and you call and draw out or don't. None of that really matters. All that matters is if your money goes in good or bad. If your money goes in good, you're not making a mistake. Poker is a zero-sum game (less the rake) and their gain is your loss. If you don't bet enough, in the long run, you're losing money. Bottom line.
If he has a FD His odds dont change just because he gets a better price. KK vs Ah9h on a Kh 7h, 4c board is 75/25 me.
Of course they do! They're called pot odds. Obviously the odds of him making his flush are independant of whether you go all in or check it down, but that's not what we look at in poker. All that matters is the price the pot is laying him compared to the odds that he'll make his draw. It is your job to set a price where it's incorrect to call. Really, your goal should be to bet the largest amount that he will incorrectly call. If you bet too little, he's not making a mistake and he makes money in the long run.
Obviously if i make a pot sized bet and he calls, he makes a mistake. But at that point i'm commited and we're seeing 5th street anyways.
Explain how this is relevant. He's made a mistake. You profit from his mistake. Even if he makes his flush on the turn (after calling incorrectly) and shoves, you'll be given the odds that you need to try and make a boat. He's made another mistake here becuase he is giving you the correct price to outdraw him. Whether or not you don't (or he doesn't) have enough chips to offer the incorrect price doesn't matter. The fact will remain that you will have put in money on the flop where he made a mistake to call you. Then on the turn, when he gets lucky, he cannot cause you to make a mistake becuase there isn't enough money behind. You win twice by playing perfectly on the flop AND turn while he makes 2 mistakes.
So what do i gain by making him call a pot sized bet? Do i get to call him names if he hits his flush?
Profit in the long run. The only thing that matters.
Acid: If you're in my spot and 1 villain has air, and the other has the Nut flush draw, you want to get all the money in here before the river right? (please tell me you want all your chips in the middle.)Are you folding if a heart peels off on the turn?
Of course I want my chips in the middle. Any way I play this hand, they'll all be in there on the turn. The point of making a big enough bet on the flop is for 2 reasons. The first is that he will be making a mistake chasing the flush when he calls. The second is that on the turn, if he does call, the pot will be big enough that we'll have correct odds to call all-in if a heart falls, even if he flips over his hand and we see he's turned the nut flush.
You guys make it sound like his winning % goes up because he gets 3.5:1 instead of 2:1 on the call. I know the price you need to draw, I know you want your opponents to make mistakes.
Winning % does not matter. His profit goes up if he gets the 4:1 that you offer him. Long Term Profit >>>>>> Winning Percentage.
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I've had this same discussion with buddies of mine. They think giving good odds to call on the flop to get more money in there and then pushing the drawer out on the turn is the way to go. I explained to them what Acid is saying, but a lot less eloquently.The point is, I didn't do it in the sacred I Am Bored At Work thread.

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For your enjoyment....Here is what you're missing. Doubling up is not the point of playing poker. If not enough money goes in on the flop, then they're not making a mistake calling you. Maybe the turn blanks, you shove and they fold. Maybe the turn completes their flush, they shove and you call and draw out or don't. None of that really matters. All that matters is if your money goes in good or bad. If your money goes in good, you're not making a mistake. Poker is a zero-sum game (less the rake) and their gain is your loss. If you don't bet enough, in the long run, you're losing money. Bottom line.
You see this mistake made over and over and over again in so many ways: I watched this hand go down last night: someone raised to $20 PF and got himself four callers. $100 in pot, right? Flop comes xxx, two clubs. A guy with several hundred behind hits top two, but bets $30 and gets three callers. :club: We now have a $190 pot, right? We see an uncoordinated turn card, guy with top two has about $350 behind, but he bets .... $50. :D Gets a call and a fold. River is a club. His caller goes all in, guy with top two disgustingly mucks his top two face up and makes a derogatory comment about "chasers." :icon_doh:These fundamental misunderstandings about the simple pot odds maths are profit opportunities for the rest of us. Oh, and keep this shit a secret, OK? -- At every $1/$2 table (and most $2/$5 tables), there's maybe 25% of the players there who understand why the guy who flopped top two pair sucks at poker. Most of the people there last night just knowingly nodded their heads about the danged "flush chasers." In fact, I was the "chaser" in a VERY similar hand a week ago ... when my flush hit the river, I pushed and THEN HE CALLED my all in -- which almost tripled the size of the pot. He says he called because he thought I was "better than that to chase the flush to the river." Well, my friend, you give me that price for the nut flush draw, AND THEN PAY IT OFF AT THE RIVER, TOO, I'll be "bad" all day long.Here's another example. I flop a set on a two suit board. We get a lot of money in on the flop, he's got a bad price to see his flush. Naturally, his suit turns. Opponent shoves his obvious made flush and I insta-call because I'm getting a ridiculous 6:1 or something to see the river (which shows how bad I had him on the flop ... but I digress). I river a board pair and take it down. He goes livid on me, saying, "Jesus, I practically played my flush face up on that turn. How could you call?" BTW, this hand illustrates perfectly the point that AK made. I can think of about 15 responses to his question. And, no, I wasn't giving free poker lessons that night. It cost him a buy in for the lesson, but I think he missed the point. When I play with him again, I hope that we can review this lesson over and over.
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