navybuttons 15 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Absolute PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $0.25/$0.505 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $28.80Hero: $71.50Button: $64.35SB: $39.70BB: $52.15Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is CO with UTG folds, Hero raises to $2, Button folds, SB raises to $5, BB folds, Hero calls. Are we okay up to here? Flop: :D ($10.5, 2 players)SB bets $3.5, Hero calls. if i'm calling preflop i'm calling this flop.Turn: ($17.5, 2 players)SB bets $12standard fold? Link to post Share on other sites
bdc30 0 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Uh no. Not to my way of thinking anyways. If you were good on the flop, you're still good on the turn. If you're planning on folding to a non-heart card lower than your Q, fold the flop. I prefer raising the flop. You have tptk. Lets find out where we're at. Make it $13.50 and see what happens. Link to post Share on other sites
krownroyal1983 0 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Alot depends on your read of this player. He re-raised you preflop which would scare me, but calling with AQ was ok, but i would play this hand with caution, from the flop on. He bets about 1/3 of the pot. At this point he could probably have anything from KQ, a overpair to the board or AQ himself. His turn bet screams strenth to me, at this point you can eliminate some hands but at this point i would say your lookin at AQ KK or possible AA. He may even got lucky and made a set of 10's on the turn. Once again laying this hand down on the turn goes back to how this guy has played in the past and this hands he's showed down. Personally i would lay this hand down on the turn. But if you call his turn bet you should be prepared to call a big bet on the river.Did you end up seeing your oppoinents hand? Link to post Share on other sites
jmbreslin 0 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Uh no. Not to my way of thinking anyways. If you were good on the flop, you're still good on the turn. If you're planning on folding to a non-heart card lower than your Q, fold the flop. I prefer raising the flop. You have tptk. Lets find out where we're at. Make it $13.50 and see what happens.Except that calling the flop bet to see if he'll fire again on the turn can be an effective way of testing the strength of villain's hand, and cheaper than raising the flop. The fact that he fired again shows strength; if he had checked the turn OOP, that opens up the possibility that he may have reraised and CB'd with something like AK. Link to post Share on other sites
Scott3705 0 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 I hate this handThe range that I feel like I'm 3-bet in these types of situations is pretty wide, so I might be a little off with what you're encountering. My 3-bet range for non-nittish players at 6-max is usually looking something like this 77+ AJ+ KQ, KJ. .i hate raise/folding the flop cause it comes back to you at 2:1 with TPTK. It's still probably a fold but there's enough crazy geniuses that attack the bet for information line that I just can't stand doing it anymore. I hate calling the flop because it looks weak and you're probably getting a second bet from hands that you have crushed, but you're going to fold to. Other reason I hate this hand is his betting pattern. It fits both 1) Flop: I want to see if he caught anything and not scare him away. Turn: he has something, let's get more chips in there 2) Flop: If he didn't hit anything he'll fold for whatever price Turn: He only called, he's weak and I can blow him out. I'm more inclined to think it's the first one. In summary, I hate this hand. Just open fold because AQ and JJ are the devil. If you must play them, raise/fold the flop. IMO, with his silly bet, it's the cheapest way to get SOLID information here. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 His bet sizing is terrible.On the turn he bets 2/3 of the pot on a board with 2 flush draws as well as straightening cards that provide a TON of OESD possibilities. What is he protecting?I raise his flop bet here every time becuase it fits nicely into the larger scheme of my style. I raise him with sets, with draws, with TP and with nothing at all when he makes that weak bet. You have position, now use it!The problem with just calling is that you still know nothing about his hand. He could have AJ/AK suited in hearts or spades here and have a big draw on the turn. He figures he'll fire again since you could've called the flop with anyhting for that cheap price. I wouldn't give him QQ since you have a Q, but I think there's an outside chance of AA or KK here.You should definitely be raising this flop IMO becuase against an unknown, the hand is just too difficult to play out otherwise due to stack sizes and stuff. Link to post Share on other sites
sabes99 0 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 His bet sizing is terrible.On the turn he bets 2/3 of the pot on a board with 2 flush draws as well as straightening cards that provide a TON of OESD possibilities. What is he protecting?I raise his flop bet here every time becuase it fits nicely into the larger scheme of my style. I raise him with sets, with draws, with TP and with nothing at all when he makes that weak bet. You have position, now use it!The problem with just calling is that you still know nothing about his hand. He could have AJ/AK suited in hearts or spades here and have a big draw on the turn. He figures he'll fire again since you could've called the flop with anyhting for that cheap price. I wouldn't give him QQ since you have a Q, but I think there's an outside chance of AA or KK here.You should definitely be raising this flop IMO becuase against an unknown, the hand is just too difficult to play out otherwise due to stack sizes and stuff.this is about everything that i was thinking Link to post Share on other sites
Pot Odds RAC 23 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 I don't see anything on the Turn card that changes our play. If TPTK was good on the Flop, I think it still is. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 His bet sizing is terrible.On the turn he bets 2/3 of the pot on a board with 2 flush draws as well as straightening cards that provide a TON of OESD possibilities. What is he protecting?I raise his flop bet here every time becuase it fits nicely into the larger scheme of my style. I raise him with sets, with draws, with TP and with nothing at all when he makes that weak bet. You have position, now use it!The problem with just calling is that you still know nothing about his hand. He could have AJ/AK suited in hearts or spades here and have a big draw on the turn. He figures he'll fire again since you could've called the flop with anyhting for that cheap price. I wouldn't give him QQ since you have a Q, but I think there's an outside chance of AA or KK here.You should definitely be raising this flop IMO becuase against an unknown, the hand is just too difficult to play out otherwise due to stack sizes and stuff.I agree. This flop is as good as we could reasonably expect. Testing the strength of our hand is only going to get more expensive. Link to post Share on other sites
Scott3705 0 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 I don't see anything on the Turn card that changes our play. If TPTK was good on the Flop, I think it still is.The point of calling behind is that he doesn't know if TPTK is good on the flop and is trying to get informatin as cheap as possible. It's a very good strategy deeper stacked against an aggressive player. In this situation though, I just don't think calling behind is going to get us any information because of the reraise preflop and stack sizes. Both of these will lead villian to fire at the turn with a hand less than ours when we call behind since we're coming off weak. Deeper stacked, I would rather call the flop and probably fold the turn. With the size of the pot preflop, I think the only way to play this hand is to reraise and just understand that we HAVE to lose money in this pot when we're behind. Link to post Share on other sites
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