Q&a With Steve7stud

[steve7stud 0]

If you don't want to spend too much time on it thats cool just ignore this, but I'de really love it if you pointed out even one or two specific mistakes.

I honestly don't remember off hand. It was a long time ago.Again, if the book is helping people win, I'm all for it.

[hblask 1]

My question is, how much do you think natural talent has a bearing on a person's poker ability?

I think some people have 'natural talent', and pick the game up quickly and go on to great success. Others take longer. Look at the saying under my avatar<------- over there.I was one of Steve's students. Some of his students picked up what he was teaching instantly. Like you, I put in tons of effort and focus trying to improve, but didn't get it right away. I didn't give up, though, and what we learned in s7s is sinking in, and showing up in my results.So I think it is a continuum. People fall somewhere on the bell-shaped curve called 'natural talent', and fall somewhere on the bell-shaped curve called 'effort'. The two of these together put you somewhere on the curve called 'poker ability'. I think either one of these by itself can, as Steve said, move you into being a winning player(*). Neither one alone can make you a world-class player. Honestly assessing which combination of the two you have is a necessary, if painful, part of playing poker.(*) barring some mental deficiency that makes you non-functional. For example, if you can't remember the odds of hitting your flush, no matter how many times you read it, you may be in trouble.

[Actuary 3]

I honestly don't want to spend too much time on this topic.

that's cool.we regurgitate it ad infinitum on the LHE forums, anyway.************it does teach elementary concepts like:pot equitypot oddsimplied oddsriodiscounting outsprotecting your hand - wish it had more on thisplaying over cards - wish it had more on this, tooand about 1/2 dozen more ideas on a beginners levels.but otherwise it's useless for anything but the lowest of limits

[Cappy37 0]

for a competent player at a table of tards (read: TAG vs combo of LAG/LP donkeys), the edges by my estimation are:o8>stud hi>stud8>2-7>omaha hi>LHE, with variance being much bigger in the non-split pot games.

I play essentially $1-5 non-HE donkfest MTTs, so I'm curious why you rate Stud hi above Stud 8?Is it the tards who stay in hands until 5th street who can't beat whats out on the upcards? Or is it just more of a hassle for you to determine who's going high and who's going low in Stud 8 than to outplay people in Stud hi?Also, did you forget Razz, or do you find it harder to exploit bad Razz players than even bad LHE players? Just curious.

[Jamaica876 0]

I play essentially $1-5 non-HE donkfest MTTs, so I'm curious why you rate Stud hi above Stud 8?Is it the tards who stay in hands until 5th street who can't beat whats out on the upcards? Or is it just more of a hassle for you to determine who's going high and who's going low in Stud 8 than to outplay people in Stud hi?Also, did you forget Razz, or do you find it harder to exploit bad Razz players than even bad LHE players? Just curious.

wassup cappy, man iw as suppose to wint hat raz last night but i got runnered out hardcore even though i did the right thing

[ahosang 0]

here is how i'd put it, for limit games (nl and pl games are obviously going to be able to push bigger edges for stax whereas in limit, that's not possible):for a competent player at a table of tards (read: TAG vs combo of LAG/LP donkeys), the edges by my estimation are:o8>stud hi>stud8>2-7>omaha hi>LHE, with variance being much bigger in the non-split pot games.for a great player vs a table of competent but not great players (read: creative players vs TAGs):2-7>LHE>omaha hi>stud hi>>stud8>>>>>>o8, with variance having a similar relationship.steve will probably disagree with this in some spots, but i think that generally, split pot games are really good to play against people who are clueless, as you can get in freeroll situations and really push edges against people who don't have a clue. as you move up, though, split pot games become less advantageous because you lose the hand selection edge (unless you're playing in a shorthanded game, where things change a lot in split pot games). not sure how enlightening that is, but i find it interesting at least

I like these thoughts where you can think about why edges may exist in different games, and what/how you can push edges against your opponent types at the table.i generally agree with your ideas except put stud-hi at the front of any list(disregarding draw-hi). Basically, i think it's the limit game that affords the greatest edge to the great player.

[checkymcfold 0]

I like these thoughts where you can think about why edges may exist in different games, and what/how you can push edges against your opponent types at the table.i generally agree with your ideas except put stud-hi at the front of any list(disregarding draw-hi). Basically, i think it's the limit game that affords the greatest edge to the great player.

i'd be inclined to agree with you re: stud hi, but i think triple draw is similar in that regard, and after watching some amazing LHE players play the game at a very high level, i kinda think that you can do more metagame awesomeness in a game where you can't see any of the other guys' cards. stud is definitely a game where you can PUNISH mistakes, since they're right there in front of you, but it's a bit harder to outplay people when your cards are face up as well. just imho, of course. i really do enjoy all games, just for different reasons.cappy, i did forget about razz, which is kinda funny considering it's one of my favorite games, especially shorthanded, lol. it's probably near the front of the list in the TAG/donkey list and near the middle of the other one.

[ahosang 0]

Actually I've been playing a lot of HU and 3-handed LHE lately. This is the first time in say, 15 years I've played this much short-handed. LHE isn't really a game I feel comfortable with, but don't you think this game is extraordinary against weak-tights? When people don't know HE HU, they're very, very poor. I would never, ever want to play LHE against SH/HU regulars, but when you're fortunate enough to get a couple of tight players who don't know how to adjust to SH play, it is very amusing.

[steve7stud 0]

Actually I've been playing a lot of HU and 3-handed LHE lately. This is the first time in say, 15 years I've played this much short-handed. LHE isn't really a game I feel comfortable with, but don't you think this game is extraordinary against weak-tights? When people don't know HE HU, they're very, very poor. I would never, ever want to play LHE against SH/HU regulars, but when you're fortunate enough to get a couple of tight players who don't know how to adjust to SH play, it is very amusing.

I was about to ask if there was a question in there, lol.A weak tight player will never succeed in short handed lhe.I've actually been playing a lot of sh lhe lately. Sadly, there aren't andy weak tight players. In fact just about everyone is aggro to super aggro.The key is learning how to adjust to each player, and to figure out when the table is changing as people come and go. Most people have a very difficult time with that. Going from 3 handed to 6 handed is where most people fall short, and vice versa.

[Zach6668 513]

LHE is hard.

[mikeysong 0]

LHE is hard.

that's because you suck nutsmikeysong's nuts*:Dlet's settle our grudges over 1on1 bowlinghu for rolls

[troyomac 0]

let's settle our grudges over 1on1 bowlinghu for rolls

can i play too?

[Abbaddabba 0]

playing against a bad stud player, vs playing against a bad hold em player... what is bad? the best way to define it is in terms of how much you can win off of them and how fast. which makes the question of where your edge is biggest redundant.i think that people tend to play hold em better in general, because it's been played so much more. but that doesnt really say much.

[Zach6668 513]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL MICHAEL.I will play you HU BOWLING for my roll any time, my friend. I'll just make sure I provide the alcohol.

[checkymcfold 0]

playing against a bad stud player, vs playing against a bad hold em player... what is bad? the best way to define it is in terms of how much you can win off of them and how fast. which makes the question of where your edge is biggest redundant.i think that people tend to play hold em better in general, because it's been played so much more. but that doesnt really say much.

what i was talking about, at least, with respect to the different games and edges, was that certain types of games are easier to beat for more when you're playing someone who is obviously bad, but difficult to read due to the information offered you by their boards (stud games and freeroll games are typically good for this, since their boards are in front of you, and you can freeroll them frequently, respectively), but in games like HE, when pots get super inflated very easily, donkeys drawing at everything will conceivably have odds to do so and thus make correct decisions, if only unwittingly. that's obviously not to say that you can't crush a low limit LHE game, but in certain extremely loose and tough to read games, it can be more difficult to do so without a lot of variance. that's simply not the case with split pot games when they can be played profitably even when you're only winning half pots.

[nutzbuster 7]

can i play too?

KEGELing F T W! ONE TIME!!!

[Mercury69 3]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL MICHAEL.I will play you HU BOWLING for my roll any time, my friend. I'll just make sure I provide the alcohol.

Roofies?

[Zach6668 513]

Meh, doesn't even need to be roofies.Have you ever seen this guy try to bowl while drinking?It's free money.He struggled to break 50...

[mikeysong 0]

nuh uh

[troyomac 0]

KEGELing F T W! ONE TIME!!!

Huh?

[El Guapo 8]

Steve I have a multi part PLO question. What kind of BR should I have to not worry about swings in a 1-2 PLO game? Live. Assume in this particular game I am above average, mix my style but pretty much tight agreesive, I see a lot of flops and then play accordingly.Also, is there any specific way to weather the swings? I have won up to $1,000 in a session and lost as much as $500. For the most part I am only playing this in a home game setting, but the game gets pretty big as far as home games go. We have had 3-4k on the table before. But the last few times I have played have been really bad for me, which has me tightening up (I have not been able to put aside money just for poker as things come up where I have used the money) I never play with money I can't lose, but recently it has taken my playing money away.Any suggestion would be appreciated. Thx.

[Zach6668 513]

You could probably minimize swings, but it would be at the cost of your winrate, significantly, most likely.

[David_Nicoson 1]

Steve I have a multi part PLO question. What kind of BR should I have to not worry about swings in a 1-2 PLO game? Live. Assume in this particular game I am above average, mix my style but pretty much tight agreesive, I see a lot of flops and then play accordingly.

What do you buy in for in this game? Is the maximum opener 7 or something more creative?

[El Guapo 8]

What do you buy in for in this game? Is the maximum opener 7 or something more creative?

Usually $$60 - $100 ..... we had to limit the buy in because the word got out on the game and some crazy gamlbing mexicans (a couple of the players new them) came and brought thousand to sit down in this game. Although it is a pretty big game for a home game, we still want it to be fun, not cut-throat. Nobody was gambling with their mortgage payments until that guy showed up, it was also the reason we switched from a NL HE game to PL dealers choice, but PLO is the game played 80% of the time, some PLO8 and some PL HE., with and occasional a-5 or 2-7 thrown in. If someone ever chooses razz or Stud we switch to either a 2-4 or 4-8 limit for that round. When we were just playing NL he would be $300 into a 30 pot, it got ridiculous. I know that if you are at casino you want an idiot like that there, but not in this environment.Yes the max opener is $7, so we have a lot of post flop play unless there is a re-raise preflop.

[antistuff 0]

its tough for me to imagine an environment where you wouldn't want somebody like that there.