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DN, I hope this helps for your golf tournaments. If anybody else has any tips, please feel free to add them.With your tee position, don't get too stupid. In a scramble, it is very easy to try and kill every shot or hit the hero shot. don't fall into this trap. 2 and 3 man scrambles are usually won by the team that was the more consistant, and since your team doesn't have a true "#1", make sure your team has options for each shot. If your team has already have a safe shot, then go for the glory. The best player/ more consistant player needs to hit LAST. It will be very hard, but try to stay in your game and hit the shots YOU are comfortable with.2 man best ball:basically same thing, but you are playing every shot that you hit. Just because you are hitting from the "way ups", don't take driver every time. Play safe, but be aggresive with that shot. Commit to what ever shot you are going to hit. Don't get down on yourself, and GRIND!Oz, your opinion will be greatly appreciated!!

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The only advice I can give is say goodbye to your million dollars. In a scramble it is basically no advantage to hit from the reds. The second shots and putting is all that matters. Even if you hit a good drive a good player also hitting a good drive will be close to where you are if you drive 230. I would always take 3 good golfers and hit from 150 yards over 3 mediocre golfers from 100 yards. If you are as poor a golfer as you say you are dead weight after the drive where at best your team may have a small advantage. Also being able to tee up the ball anywhere isn't an advantage at all since a good golfer must be able to hit it as far as you drive it anyways and if you are ever going to play from a sand trap where you can't tee it up you're screwed regardless. The only fair way in a scramble is to have the combined handicaps within a certain agreed upon range since it prevent 3 low handicaps from teaming up and dominating. Unless Eric and Josh are both 0-6 handicaps this match is -ev and even if they are if there is a team that all 3 are 0-6 handicaps it's still -ev.

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The only advice I can give is say goodbye to your million dollars. In a scramble it is basically no advantage to hit from the reds. The second shots and putting is all that matters. Even if you hit a good drive a good player also hitting a good drive will be close to where you are if you drive 230. I would always take 3 good golfers and hit from 150 yards over 3 mediocre golfers from 100 yards. If you are as poor a golfer as you say you are dead weight after the drive where at best your team may have a small advantage. Also being able to tee up the ball anywhere isn't an advantage at all since a good golfer must be able to hit it as far as you drive it anyways and if you are ever going to play from a sand trap where you can't tee it up you're screwed regardless. The only fair way in a scramble is to have the combined handicaps within a certain agreed upon range since it prevent 3 low handicaps from teaming up and dominating. Unless Eric and Josh are both 0-6 handicaps this match is -ev and even if they are if there is a team that all 3 are 0-6 handicaps it's still -ev.
I would agree with you if he was hitting from the reds, but I think he is hitting from the start of the fairway, or atleast closer than the reds. This is a major advantage on a par 5 if DN can keep the ball in play. That will be the key, not playing too far out of his ability. Most golfers don't average 250 on their drives, and DN has such a huge advantage. Here is an example: I lost a long drive hole to an old man after I hit it 310+. His tees were over 100 yards closer, and he hit his usual 220 shot down the middle. If DN can hit it 200 yards and in play, with the HUGE advantage given to him, then essentially his drives will be 300+, I will take that everyday...
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I would agree with you if he was hitting from the reds, but I think he is hitting from the start of the fairway, or atleast closer than the reds. This is a major advantage on a par 5 if DN can keep the ball in play. That will be the key, not playing too far out of his ability. Most golfers don't average 250 on their drives, and DN has such a huge advantage. Here is an example: I lost a long drive hole to an old man after I hit it 310+. His tees were over 100 yards closer, and he hit his usual 220 shot down the middle. If DN can hit it 200 yards and in play, with the HUGE advantage given to him, then essentially his drives will be 300+, I will take that everyday...
Is this true? I took the game back up two years ago and I can tell you for the most part all the people I have played with (and most of the time I go out as a single) can hit the ball 250 yards. I average about 275 with my driver. I always thought that wasn't very far as my other friends can hit it about 280-290 on their drives.Am i just playing with the wrong people? Also I agree that in these formats the short game is all that really matters. So DN keep practicing those lag putts!
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I would agree with you if he was hitting from the reds, but I think he is hitting from the start of the fairway, or atleast closer than the reds. This is a major advantage on a par 5 if DN can keep the ball in play. That will be the key, not playing too far out of his ability. Most golfers don't average 250 on their drives, and DN has such a huge advantage. Here is an example: I lost a long drive hole to an old man after I hit it 310+. His tees were over 100 yards closer, and he hit his usual 220 shot down the middle. If DN can hit it 200 yards and in play, with the HUGE advantage given to him, then essentially his drives will be 300+, I will take that everyday...
Giving an advantage like this off the tee in a scramble is a sucker bet if they are up against a team of GOOD golfers which I suspect Doyle's team is. If he hits a good drive like you say, it may give his team a slight advantage of 10-20 yards. On a par 5 this is nothing. Also playing forward like that brings lots of trouble into play that he would never reach normally and can you imagine his partners in big trouble with him hitting last and having to hit a good one just to give his team some hope(I am assuming he will be hitting last since he is so far ahead of where everyone else is teeing off & would probably be dangerous otherwise). Unfortunately there are more shots to be played and like I said I will take 3 good golfers from 150 yards over 3 mediocre ones from 100 every time. As for the old man who out drove you by a whopping 10 yards wouldn't you say you still had a big advantage over him to have the better score by the end of the hole? If this was on a par 5(and I've never heard of a long drive hole not being one) this would be a no brainer since you should be able to hit the green from there while he most likely can't. I'm pretty sure there are not going to be any big money prizes for long drive in their match.
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To the OP, no offense, but if I didn't know all that do you really think I'd be playing??? :-) As for the tee spot, it's more significant than you think, especially on par 3's. The best club in my bag is a 9-iron which I hit 105 yards. All of the par 3's play 105 yards for me and much longer for the other guys from much worse angles. We've been practicing the scramble and we use my shot quite often. Also, there are some holes where we would NEVER use Erick or Josh's drives. On some of these holes I'm over 100+ yards in front of them so my drives will be key. Essentially, in the scramble all I'm ever hitting is driver, 9-iron/PW, or putter. We practiced a lot today with mixed results. With only a 9 hole match and a two tie all tie format, unless they absolutely decide to rob and cheat us, we are in fine shape in the scramble. Other very key point is that handicaps are meaningless in a scramble. A guy like Erick, for example but have a high handicap because he blows up on some holes. However, when he plays well he's very long and very good. In fact, I'd much rather have Erick than even Dewey Tomko, a much better golfer but with less upside in a 3-man scramble. A 3-man scramble with two tie all tie should favor long hitters and guys who hit long irons well. Also, putting is without question, the absolute key to victory. As for us not really having a #1 guy, in this format, E-Dog is a number one guy. All they'll really need from me is to drive the ball straight and about 220 yards. Also hit some decent approach shots on par 3's and maybe some others as well. With three teams of three and no carry over skins, it would be nearly impossible to win more than 3 holes and we are playing $$$ per hole. The best ball pays four spots. They move Erick up for that and I think we have a decent shot depending how we play... we'll see.

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Arieh still has a million flat that he can throw down on a golf tournament?I sense things are not entirely as they seem.
Everyone is playing for different amounts I imagine, with most people selling pieces of thier action.
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daniel, you seem like a smart guy. why would you put up 1 million on a game that you kinda suck at? scramble or not, that seems foolish.
None of these guys would do anything if they didn't think they had some kind of edge. Daniels no dummy. There must be a reason.....ZOMG!!!!vaseline.jpg:club:
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To the OP, no offense, but if I didn't know all that do you really think I'd be playing??? :-) As for the tee spot, it's more significant than you think, especially on par 3's. The best club in my bag is a 9-iron which I hit 105 yards. All of the par 3's play 105 yards for me and much longer for the other guys from much worse angles. We've been practicing the scramble and we use my shot quite often. Also, there are some holes where we would NEVER use Erick or Josh's drives. On some of these holes I'm over 100+ yards in front of them so my drives will be key. Essentially, in the scramble all I'm ever hitting is driver, 9-iron/PW, or putter. We practiced a lot today with mixed results. With only a 9 hole match and a two tie all tie format, unless they absolutely decide to rob and cheat us, we are in fine shape in the scramble. Other very key point is that handicaps are meaningless in a scramble. A guy like Erick, for example but have a high handicap because he blows up on some holes. However, when he plays well he's very long and very good. In fact, I'd much rather have Erick than even Dewey Tomko, a much better golfer but with less upside in a 3-man scramble. A 3-man scramble with two tie all tie should favor long hitters and guys who hit long irons well. Also, putting is without question, the absolute key to victory. As for us not really having a #1 guy, in this format, E-Dog is a number one guy. All they'll really need from me is to drive the ball straight and about 220 yards. Also hit some decent approach shots on par 3's and maybe some others as well. With three teams of three and no carry over skins, it would be nearly impossible to win more than 3 holes and we are playing $$$ per hole. The best ball pays four spots. They move Erick up for that and I think we have a decent shot depending how we play... we'll see.
DN, no offense taken. Just thought a little reminder might help. You are going to have a huge advantage, and with this I would take you on my team, and let Hockey Guy take Dewey or Doyle, and I know that we would have a good chance to win. Also, I wasn't sure that there were no carry-overs, but I assumed not because of your feeling about not much blood being spilled. So in reality, this is a 1 hole scramble 9 different times. Your team has to play really bad to lose alot of blood in this format...HG, I have played in many tournaments (scrambles, best ball, alt shot) where the long drive was on a par 4, with the seniors having a similar advantage. The example above was in a 5 man scramble, and the long hitter in their group missed the fairway.Good luck DN, TID!!!
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None of these guys would do anything if they didn't think they had some kind of edge. Daniels no dummy. There must be a reason.....ZOMG!!!!vaseline.jpg:club:
funny how nutz has this available! :D
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the funny part about putting that on the club, you still have to hit the ball with a square face! We kept pinnacles in heating pads one time for a tournament. They went so far, but we had no control what so ever. Good times...

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Doyle and Dewey = the nuts. Players like that are going to play consistently 95%+ of the time and that's how they've made millions on the golf course. Wow your going to go broke again soon ... why even bother ? Is there not better competition to play against where you might actually have a shot to win heh ? Even if you have strokes for you, the times you play inconsistent (and most of us have those god forsaken days where you feel good and like playing but can't do much right) is where they're going to break you.

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Doyle and Dewey = the nuts. Players like that are going to play consistently 95%+ of the time and that's how they've made millions on the golf course. Wow your going to go broke again soon ... why even bother ? Is there not better competition to play against where you might actually have a shot to win heh ? Even if you have strokes for you, the times you play inconsistent (and most of us have those god forsaken days where you feel good and like playing but can't do much right) is where they're going to break you.
with "gamblers' rules", they are pretty damn close to the nuts. USGA rules, they are not that good. Dewey would have a hard time getting down to 14 clubs. Anybody having over 2 bags worth of clubs has to make too many decisions. Having to play the ball down, they would have hell in the rough. I would like to see a round of gamblers' rules followed by a round of USGA rules.
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Doyle and Dewey = the nuts. Players like that are going to play consistently 95%+ of the time and that's how they've made millions on the golf course. Wow your going to go broke again soon ... why even bother ? Is there not better competition to play against where you might actually have a shot to win heh ? Even if you have strokes for you, the times you play inconsistent (and most of us have those god forsaken days where you feel good and like playing but can't do much right) is where they're going to break you.
If you fully understood the format, you'd see that Doyle and Dewey were actually huge underdogs in a scramble format. Dewey drives the ball 240 yards and must play from the back tees where other guys are hitting it 290. Also, from the super reds, Doyle consistently hits driver about 175 yards right down the middle. That's not bad, but in a scramble, they are always giving up major yardage after the first shot. Doyle puts well, Dewey doesn't at all. Dewey, on his own is very tough to beat because he makes few mistakes and will consistently make pars. That's not a great guy to have on your team in a 3-man scramble. We played it today, I won't tell you the results as they are completely irrelivant anyway. When you do watch it, though, it'll be hard to see how our team wasn't a monster favorite in this particular format. Seriously, Josh and E drive the ball hard and I can hit it 220 from the super reds. I also can hit 9 iron exactly 105 yards on the dime which helps a tom since every par 3 for me was... 105 yards! Tomorrow is the best ball and that will be a real blast. Early oddsmakers put up the following numbers:Dewey/Doyle: Off the BoardBig Al/Butch Holmes 4-1David Grey/Huck Seed 4-1Hilbert Shirley/Billy Walters 4-1David Oppenhiem/Phil Ivey 5-1Russ Hamilton/Phil Hellmuth 5-1Daniel Negreanu/Erick Lindgren 6-1Mickey Appleman/John Hanson 20-1Vince Van Patten/Janet Jones-Gretzky 20-1
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If you fully understood the format, you'd see that Doyle and Dewey were actually huge underdogs in a scramble format. Dewey drives the ball 240 yards and must play from the back tees where other guys are hitting it 290. Also, from the super reds, Doyle consistently hits driver about 175 yards right down the middle. That's not bad, but in a scramble, they are always giving up major yardage after the first shot. Doyle puts well, Dewey doesn't at all. Dewey, on his own is very tough to beat because he makes few mistakes and will consistently make pars. That's not a great guy to have on your team in a 3-man scramble. We played it today, I won't tell you the results as they are completely irrelivant anyway. When you do watch it, though, it'll be hard to see how our team wasn't a monster favorite in this particular format. Seriously, Josh and E drive the ball hard and I can hit it 220 from the super reds. I also can hit 9 iron exactly 105 yards on the dime which helps a tom since every par 3 for me was... 105 yards! Tomorrow is the best ball and that will be a real blast. Early oddsmakers put up the following numbers:Dewey/Doyle: Off the BoardBig Al/Butch Holmes 4-1David Grey/Huck Seed 4-1Hilbert Shirley/Billy Walters 4-1David Oppenhiem/Phil Ivey 5-1Russ Hamilton/Phil Hellmuth 5-1Daniel Negreanu/Erick Lindgren 6-1Mickey Appleman/John Hanson 20-1Vince Van Patten/Janet Jones-Gretzky 20-1
DN,Any info on these guys? Pure golf gamblers or also side-game players? How is Janet Gretzky in the mix?
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DN,Any info on these guys? Pure golf gamblers or also side-game players? How is Janet Gretzky in the mix?
Those guys are basically hustlers in every forn, some more exclusively with golf. Butch Holmes is probably the greatest golf hustler of all time. His handicap is a "7" but that hardly means very much with this group. For tomorrow's best ball I made a few side bets:$20,000 vs Russ Hamilton and Phil Hellmuth +1.05$10,000 vs David Grey and Huck Seed +1.65$10,000 vs Butch Holmes and Big Al +.1.65$5000 vs Mickey Appleman and John Hansan -1.5 shots and -1.10 I played nine holes with Phil today and I think he played about as good as he could possibly play. Some good drives and tee shots, but it's hard not to bet against a guy who is putting from 70 yards off the green! I don't know enough about Butch and Al, but the tee spot is pretty huge. I can't imagine giving E-DOG that much of a tee spot is favorable for them. Erick hits it long and usually straight and can putt when he is on. I think the winning score in the best ball will be a -4 67 although the line is at -2. Apparently the pins are tucked away. Night all, I'm staying at Venetian and will be up at 7:00am hitting balls.
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So have you seen anyone using or employing any classic "gamblers rules" or grease like chicanery? :club:
I wonder how much more of an edge "grease" gives a player with new equipment. The new drivers are made to hit with less spin, the balls (even Pro V's and Callaway 56's) are made for less spin off the driver. It may be possible that it actually gives a disadvantage. You need spin to get the ball air borne and keep it there. I may have to try this out and see post the results...
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After I read an article about golf gamblers and grease, my nephew and I went and tried it out. It works. You have to aim straight or you a screwed. It's also a messy way to play golf. I don't see how it would help all that much to be honest.Just wondering how crazy and creative (if at all) some of the players are getting with the gamblers rules. :club:

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