Shimmeringwanghand

[Shimmering Wang 1]

This is a hand I played earlier today. We're playing 9 handed, and 5 of the players are pretty good. 3 are baddish, and one is just awful. The four bad players really have no business playing with the good players, but we're mostly playing for fun. In this hand, the MP is bad, and the BB is good and aggressive. We haven't played much together, but I know he is probably very good.One of the weak players limps in the middle somewhere. Folded to me in the CO, and I raise AdJd. SB folds and the BB calls.Flop is A 9 6 rainbowMP checks, I bet, BB raises, MP folds, I callTurn 8 (completes rainbow)BB bets, I callRiver 8 BB bets, I raiseQuestions:Why did I wait until the river? Am I folding to a 3-bet? Wang

[Moneyball16 0]

Im fine with this. Villain probably reraise with AK or AQ preflop putting you on a pretty wide range isolating the donk so I think there is value in the river raise. You probably waited till the river to make him put in more bets with a worse hand that he may fold earlier but may make a confused call on the river due to the way you played the hand and the size of the pot. It also helps that the flop is pretty drawless, he may continue bluffing and this line may also confuse him into missing a raise on the river that he would have made earlier with a better hand. This is a line I would rarely use but I think that may be more of a function of me rarely finding a opportunity to and often not knowing when to use this line.I think youd have to fold to a river 3-bet putting him on a full house cause I dont think he would bluff enough here to make a call profitable.

[sabes99 0]

since the BB is a good/aggressive player, i would 3-bet the flop just about every single time...i guess you waited until the river to try to get him to bet again so you can raise the end and make a couple extra bets, but that's just my guessas played, i just call the river after just calling the turn, but since you raised i think i would end up paying off a 3-bet and probably have him show me A-8 or 9-8 or something along those lines

[Shimmering Wang 1]

since the BB is a good/aggressive player, i would 3-bet the flop just about every single time...i guess you waited until the river to try to get him to bet again so you can raise the end and make a couple extra bets, but that's just my guessas played, i just call the river after just calling the turn, but since you raised i think i would end up paying off a 3-bet and probably have him show me A-8 or 9-8 or something along those lines

He's a good player, so his perception of my range changes very dramatically when I 3-bet the flop vs. when I just call. It should be noted that I did pause a few seconds before calling the flop raise. If I didn't raise the flop, why didn't I raise the turn?If he's going to show me A8 or 98, why am I calling the 3-bet?Wnag

[Zach6668 513]

Unless you think he's suicidal, fold to the 3-bet.However, I like the rest of the way you played it.I tend to mix it up in these spots between 3-betting the flop (usually if the 3rd guy tags along), raising the turn, and raising the river, although, admittedly, I don't wait til the river enough, if ever.

[Actuary 3]

w/o reading replies:BoardA96 88You are waiting until the river because you are often WA and occassionally WB.BB would have raised TT+ pf and better Aces, often.BB would fold other pps to further action post flop.It's very draw light so we extract value by letting him keep the lead.and in general, players hate folding to river raises because it's only 1 more BB.Whereas on the Turn, their effective odds are about 1/2 as good, esp on draw light boards.I'm close on river bet.BB should put you on a wide Raising range preflop, as you want to isolate the weak player in pos.But I doubt he thinks you would fold a better hand to a 3-bet than one he would have played this way so far.He could still 3-bet A9 and 66 here.**********ok, now to read thread.***********Yes, as noted by MB and I meant to say, he will often not 3-bet hands here now that the board paird and you took this line.So you will get to see SD sometimes even when beat.This makes folding to a 3-bet easier

[sabes99 0]

He's a good player, so his perception of my range changes very dramatically when I 3-bet the flop vs. when I just call. It should be noted that I did pause a few seconds before calling the flop raise. If I didn't raise the flop, why didn't I raise the turn?If he's going to show me A8 or 98, why am I calling the 3-bet?Wnag

the part about calling and getting shown two pair was a bad sarcasm attemptobv if he 3-bets the river you beat only a kamikaze bluff, but i think getting over 12-1 against a good player, it's worth it to see his hand and hopefully pick something up...the info might just be worth it

[Zach6668 513]

If you're that worried about the info, don't raise the river.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

My hand analysis. The BB is a good, aggressive, thinking player and has to know my range from the CO here is pretty wide given the bad player limp. It's obvious that I'm isolating the MP player. He'll call with a solid range in the BB. I'm not sure what he's 3-betting, but it's probably not all that light given his positional disadvantage and my knowledge that his 3-bet won't scream strength. When he check/raises the flop, he probably has a pair, and if he has a pair it's most likely an ace, but any pair is in his range. Once we're heads up, I'm going to smooth call this flop in position most of the time. I don't like good players from the blinds being able to check/raise and then fold to a 3-bet. I like forcing them to lead the turn or check. It becomes difficult to play OOP against a good player who will float flops, and is willing to bluff or value-raise the turn for the price of an extra-half bet, especially when bad cards roll off the deck.The turn isn't a great card for me, given the hands in his calling and check/raising range. It's not likely that I'm losing on the turn, but it also wouldn't be that out of the ordinary if I am. The key to the hand -- and the reason I don't raise the turn -- is that the pot is so big that against this player I can't fold to a 3-bet. I want to get some value out of my hand at some point, and the river is perfect for that. On this board, I can easily and safely fold to a 3-bet, but will get called by many hands that I beat. He may be value-betting a 9 here, and will always bet a weak ace. My hand looks nothing like a good ace, and the board paired on the river, so he'll be forced to call with A-rag, since this play looks like an attempt to steal half the pot. Again, the important point from my perspective is that I really, really don't want to get 3-bet on the turn, but need to get value eventually.Wang