Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Recently I was at a game at the Indian Casino and was involved in a pot with two other players.On the river there was only MP2, Myself who was the CO, and the button.I had called preflop with 67s and had not improved at all as the Board was something like A K 2 4 9. So I was going to fold no matter what. MP2 checks and then I folded not wanting to show my hand. Then the dealer says that I can't fold as it is folding out of turn. After much deliberation on my part I finally see that they are saying that it is giving an unfair advantage to the button as now he knows that he has only one person to bluff and that it is easier to bluff one person than two. I thought that when it was your turn you could do whatever you wanted to do.Any dealers out there know the correct answer to this. Is this the correct ruling? Did i really fold out of turn...even though it was my turn.Thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 56
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

+1It was your turn. You can fold if you want to.
Its not right 2 fold as op said it is unfair to the last player left in hand....like when someone says raise u should wait until they say amount b4 folding...
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah you are allowed to fold if you want too although you are giving an advantage to the guy yet to act over the guy who already has acted. It is slightly unethical and if I was the guy that already acted I would probably tell you about it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah you are allowed to fold if you want too although you are giving an advantage to the guy yet to act over the guy who already has acted. It is slightly unethical and if I was the guy that already acted I would probably tell you about it.
agree
Link to post
Share on other sites
Its not right 2 fold as op said it is unfair to the last player left in hand....like when someone says raise u should wait until they say amount b4 folding...
are you appealing to actual rules or just poker courtesy? particularly in cash games, i believe if it's your turn you should be able to check, bet or fold if you like. tournaments could be different, but that'd have to be specified well ahead of time. there's a local casino with a daily nlhe tourny that does have a rule stating one is not supposed to fold to a check. but no one gets kicked out if they do so.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah you are allowed to fold if you want too although you are giving an advantage to the guy yet to act over the guy who already has acted. It is slightly unethical and if I was the guy that already acted I would probably tell you about it.
"Tell" away. But if you said something to me, I'd blast back so hot & fast it would singe your eyebrows
Link to post
Share on other sites
Its not right 2 fold as op said it is unfair to the last player left in hand....like when someone says raise u should wait until they say amount b4 folding...
Huh? If they say raise or call, I can fold immediately because there action is known. My folding has no bearing on the situation.And bad etiquette or not... why fold here? Screw it. If they're going to check it down then they must not have squat either. And I doubt they are such good players that they are going to get any kind of info by finding out you played suited connectors and checked it down unimproved.It doesn't bother me if someone folds like this, but I do laugh a little inside.
Link to post
Share on other sites

This sort of goes into the category of forcing a player to show his cards when he folds head's up. Yeah, you can call for it, but it is a privilege not to be abused. If I have folded and mucked and someone says: "I want to see those" expect a response that includes "FU" somewhere in it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course you can fold if you want to.The only real controversy would be if, after being told by the dealer that you can't fold, you then re-raise if it comes round to you again... that would be dodgy!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Of course you can fold if you want to.The only real controversy would be if, after being told by the dealer that you can't fold, you then re-raise if it comes round to you again... that would be dodgy!
That would be BEAUTIFUL.
Link to post
Share on other sites

This is one that drives me nuts. There are actually some poker room managers that have discussed making this an actual rule. But yes you are allowed to fold it is also really really bad ettiquette. You give info to one player that another didnt have it does a huge diservice to the first player that has already acted. A guy did this to me once in a live game and I said something to him after the hand was over...he told me I was a moron and I should shut up. I then proceded to get a seat change and sat to his left. For the next two hours I telegraphed every time I was going to fold for the benefit of any player on his right, I dont think this guy noticed but he was getting raised from early position players a lot. Then finally a big pot came up with a board on the turn of 2 flush draws and 2 straight draws. I had the nut straight draw and had bet the flop as the middle of three players. On the turn the ****** donk bets the pot into me and two of us called. The river completed a backdoor flush. He checked and I said well...I guess you and I both missed huh? and folded my hand....button bets the pot and the guy I had had words with slammed top two pair on the table and said I guess you hit runner runner and folded. Button who had been their earlier for our altercation says "No I had the other flush draw and ended up with jack high" and showed it. I say "wow guess if I check you can't make that play there huh?" Button says "oh no, no way I can bet against both of you." So the ****** looks at me and says ok I see your point you're right, picks up whats left of his stack and leaves. I can be such a punk at times but I love hammering home a point like this.

Link to post
Share on other sites
This is one that drives me nuts. There are actually some poker room managers that have discussed making this an actual rule. But yes you are allowed to fold it is also really really bad ettiquette. You give info to one player that another didnt have it does a huge diservice to the first player that has already acted. A guy did this to me once in a live game and I said something to him after the hand was over...he told me I was a moron and I should shut up. I then proceded to get a seat change and sat to his left. For the next two hours I telegraphed every time I was going to fold for the benefit of any player on his right, I dont think this guy noticed but he was getting raised from early position players a lot. Then finally a big pot came up with a board on the turn of 2 flush draws and 2 straight draws. I had the nut straight draw and had bet the flop as the middle of three players. On the turn the ****** donk bets the pot into me and two of us called. The river completed a backdoor flush. He checked and I said well...I guess you and I both missed huh? and folded my hand....button bets the pot and the guy I had had words with slammed top two pair on the table and said I guess you hit runner runner and folded. Button who had been their earlier for our altercation says "No I had the other flush draw and ended up with jack high" and showed it. I say "wow guess if I check you can't make that play there huh?" Button says "oh no, no way I can bet against both of you." So the ****** looks at me and says ok I see your point you're right, picks up whats left of his stack and leaves. I can be such a punk at times but I love hammering home a point like this.
so you lost the pot with the best hand? :club:
Link to post
Share on other sites
This sort of goes into the category of forcing a player to show his cards when he folds head's up. Yeah, you can call for it, but it is a privilege not to be abused. If I have folded and mucked and someone says: "I want to see those" expect a response that includes "FU" somewhere in it.
Is that a promise girly man?
Link to post
Share on other sites

Checking when you're not facing a bet is poor etiquette akin to acting out of turn. Of course once you fold there's nothing anyone can do about it - they can't give your cards back. If you're at the river with no chance of winning just throw your cards in the muck at showdown. Same effect but it doesn't influence action at that point. If your cards hit the muck they shouldn't be retrieved even if someone asks and if someone does ask you have the moral right to kick him in the nads. Actually make that the moral responsibility to kick him in the nads.

Link to post
Share on other sites
This is one that drives me nuts. There are actually some poker room managers that have discussed making this an actual rule. But yes you are allowed to fold it is also really really bad ettiquette. You give info to one player that another didnt have it does a huge diservice to the first player that has already acted. [Anecdote about petulant revenge -- which includes actually talking about a hand while it is still going on -- omitted]
Assuming we are talking about folding when you have the opportunity to check, and not about folding before the action gets to you, then you are wrong. It is only considered bad etiquette by simple-minded opponents who think that they are entitled to use an opponent who wishes to fold his hand as a buffer against bluffs.By open-farrelling the river, you have not given one player information that the first player to act didn't have; you have given the information to everyone at the table. Of course, the last player to act still has position (as always), but it is not another player's job to sit there dutifully and hold on to his cards so that you can capitalize on the "fear factor" that having more players in the pot creates. If the player acting behind you makes note after your fold that there are fewer people left in the pot and weighs his options accordingly, then it is incumbent on the player who acted before you to determine on the basis of your fold whether the player acting behind is more likely to re-evaluate the strength of his own hand or attempt to bluff at him on the river. Anyone who argues otherwise doesn't understand that poker is a solitary game, not a team effort. These are the same people who openly discuss checking down when it gets down to the bubble of an SNG out of mortal fear that they will have to tangle in a big pot and risk losing out on third-place money.
Link to post
Share on other sites
This is one that drives me nuts. There are actually some poker room managers that have discussed making this an actual rule. But yes you are allowed to fold it is also really really bad ettiquette. You give info to one player that another didnt have it does a huge diservice to the first player that has already acted. A guy did this to me once in a live game and I said something to him after the hand was over...he told me I was a moron and I should shut up. I then proceded to get a seat change and sat to his left. For the next two hours I telegraphed every time I was going to fold for the benefit of any player on his right, I dont think this guy noticed but he was getting raised from early position players a lot. Then finally a big pot came up with a board on the turn of 2 flush draws and 2 straight draws. I had the nut straight draw and had bet the flop as the middle of three players. On the turn the ****** donk bets the pot into me and two of us called. The river completed a backdoor flush. He checked and I said well...I guess you and I both missed huh? and folded my hand....button bets the pot and the guy I had had words with slammed top two pair on the table and said I guess you hit runner runner and folded. Button who had been their earlier for our altercation says "No I had the other flush draw and ended up with jack high" and showed it. I say "wow guess if I check you can't make that play there huh?" Button says "oh no, no way I can bet against both of you." So the ****** looks at me and says ok I see your point you're right, picks up whats left of his stack and leaves. I can be such a punk at times but I love hammering home a point like this.
This story makes me happy. :club:
Link to post
Share on other sites

So by that logic you should be able to discuss future actions with others in the hand right.Let's say you're in the CO facing a raise with KQs. You can ask the B and blinds if they plan to call so that you can act accordingly with that info? Hell as long as they speak up everyone at the table has the same info.Or say you're a short stack all-in on the flop and the big stack CO is contemplating a call. It's perfectly fine for the button to go ahead and throw his cards in the muck. Because afterall everyone can see it so it's not giving information to just one player. Poker is a solitary game and not a team sport.

Link to post
Share on other sites
So by that logic you should be able to discuss future actions with others in the hand right.Let's say you're in the CO facing a raise with KQs. You can ask the B and blinds if they plan to call so that you can act accordingly with that info? Hell as long as they speak up everyone at the table has the same info.Or say you're a short stack all-in on the flop and the big stack CO is contemplating a call. It's perfectly fine for the button to go ahead and throw his cards in the muck. Because afterall everyone can see it so it's not giving information to just one player. Poker is a solitary game and not a team sport.
i think we're splitting hairs between etiquette and rulings. you can definitely ask anyone at the table what they plan on doing, and it's the up to the person you ask to answer. as has been said several times already, it's not illegal to fold in the OP scenario, just typically bad etiquette. in the scenarios you bring up, you're heading towards collusion/chip dumping, which are definitely against the rules. the gray area, of course, is proving that one's actions are in fact collusion/chip dumping. to me, "poker etiquette" makes it so that there too many aren't rulings about what people say/how they play their cards - the players will enforce their own table usually.
Link to post
Share on other sites
So by that logic you should be able to discuss future actions with others in the hand right.Let's say you're in the CO facing a raise with KQs. You can ask the B and blinds if they plan to call so that you can act accordingly with that info? Hell as long as they speak up everyone at the table has the same info.Or say you're a short stack all-in on the flop and the big stack CO is contemplating a call. It's perfectly fine for the button to go ahead and throw his cards in the muck. Because afterall everyone can see it so it's not giving information to just one player. Poker is a solitary game and not a team sport.
Not the same thing and you know it. You're just trying to troll.Tossing your cards in the muck is NOT the same as discussing future action.It checks around to me. It is my turn to act. My action is to concede the hand. It is no more acting "out of turn" than any other action such as betting is "acting out of turn". What if this wasn't the River and I do it as last to act on the Turn when it is checked around to me? Are you telling me I can't just concede the hand and run off to the can while action continues on the River? There is after all still action pending.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Announcements


×
×
  • Create New...