is this cheating

[spinnuh 0]

if you are playing a home game and you have 2 pair or sumn and the other player has a pocket pair but theres 4 cards out on the board that give them the straight but they were never even paying attention to the straight draw so at showdown they just say they got the pair but they really have the straight... i dont think its cheating if you show your 2 pair and if he mucks his cards u take the pot down... what do yall say

[pockets 0]

If he mucks his cards, you win.Simple as that.

[spinnuh 0]

oh yea i guess i should have included that he calls a bet on the river but after you show the 2 pair he throws his cards down and is like dang it and when u take the pot he doesnt say anything

[Guest]

if he's a REAL friend, you should tell him he won.it's not cheating if you didn't but that's how i would treat my friends.

[Shocktastik 0]

if he doesn't claim the pot after you declare your hand then it's his fault.Shock

[spinnuh 0]

haha he was actually someone who gets really annoying and he caught runner runner for the straight so i was pissed anywayz HE DIDNT DESERVE IT hahaha

[Munky 0]

[Diabolical 0]

did he muck them face up? and if he didn't see his straight, i don't tell him then, but later, if he's a friend i care about, i tell him how stupid he was for not seein the straight. This will help him learn not to make dumb mistakes like that and pay attention more. If it was someone i didn't know, i say nothing and let the fool do it again and again so i have an advantage.You never play soft to anybody when there is money involved!! If your a kind person than use your winnings you feel guilty about and help someone out or do something nice for someone who needs it. But don't pass up free money!!!!

[wrto4556 0]

if he's a REAL friend, you should tell him he won.it's not cheating if you didn't but that's how i would treat my friends.

What a tool.If he mucks, you win. NICE HAND!

[Sharpp 0]

Most tables have a "cards speak" rule. If he shows his hand face up, his straight is in play no matter what he says he has.

[wrto4556 0]

Most tables have a "cards speak" rule. If he shows his hand face up, his straight is in play no matter what he says he has.

prrnnt

[Diabolical 0]

yessss, .........speaking cards.................riiiiight

[Guest]

hahaha

[Usermaatre 0]

Question for all of those who think cards, when face up, do not speak for themselves. What if a person has four of a kind but says he just has a pair of xx and another pair of xx. If you are in a Casino, and you turn your cards face up, and do not declare the hand, will they give the pot to someone else? I totally understand if cards are mucked face down, but not if they are shown.

[mx957 0]

Well, in a house game it's house rules...so do as you choose. But in Vegas or most other cardrooms, it's Cards Speak. If you turn you cards face up and annouce a pair, the dealer would correct you and announce a straight. If you don't turn your cards face up, then you are on your own.Also, let's say that you had the 2 pair, and your buddy thought he had only one pair and was ready to muck. He says nice hand and is ready to muck but you ask, hey what did you have? and he turns them over....the hand is still live and he'd win the pot.

[Usermaatre 0]

If you don't turn your cards face up, then you are on your own.Also, let's say that you had the 2 pair, and your buddy thought he had only one pair and was ready to muck. He says nice hand and is ready to muck but you ask, hey what did you have? and he turns them over....the hand is still live and he'd win the pot.

I would still say cards speak. If you want to know what someone had, wait until after all cards are mucked and then ask.

[mx957 0]

If you don't turn your cards face up, then you are on your own.Also, let's say that you had the 2 pair, and your buddy thought he had only one pair and was ready to muck. He says nice hand and is ready to muck but you ask, hey what did you have? and he turns them over....the hand is still live and he'd win the pot.

I would still say cards speak. If you want to know what someone had, wait until after all cards are mucked and then ask.

Yes cards speak. My point was that be careful when you ask. If the player misreads his hand but doesn't turn them face up....don't ask him to show. I have witnessed a player that lost a pot this way in Vegas. Player A shows top pair...Player B thought all he had was second pair. Player B says "darn, all I got is second pair" and is ready to muck. Player A said let me see...Player B turned his cards face up and showed a straight. The dealer corrected player B and said you have a striaght sir and awarded him the pot. Player A wasn't very happy about it but "Cards Speak".

[Diabolical 0]

yes you are right, cards speak if they are turned face up in a casino. The dealer is suppose to announce the hand and it wins if it was the best. A home game is different cause nobody is obligated to announce the hand. Your on your own, and if you are not paying attention, i say thats your faultOk, i have a related story. i'm playing at the Bike in a 2-4 limit holdem game. there has been alot of betting so the pot is pretty healthy. i'm at the river and i bet and get one caller. I announce my hand as trips and show face up. The new player who called me, looks t my hand and then nods his head and mucks his hand face down. One of the other players who had folded on the turn, wanted to see how this new guy plays and says" i want to see what your bettin with". He then grabs the guys hand , which is already mucked but it didn't touch the other mucked cards and the dealer hasn't gone to collect them yet, and flips them over. The new player had a nut flush but didn't know he hit it.Now, you tell me who wins this pot.

[711Buddha 0]

Here in MNhttp://www.canterburypark.com/cardclub/gen.../pokerrules.htmRules7b. Cards Speak: Cards read for themselves.and 7d. Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that has been called, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player's hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.So, here in MN, since it wasn't the winner who wanted to look at it, the hand is dead.

[semaj550 0]

Well the standard rules for Hold'em state that the cards speak. You have no obligation to call your hand. Having said that, if he mucks his hand it's your pot. If he doesn't it's his pots regardless of the hand he calls. What if he called a full house and you held a flush (instead of your 2 pair)? Would he win the pot then?Even in a home game I play according to the rules. I wouldn't go out of my way to point out that he had a straight after he mucked his cards and then give him the pot. Poker between friends isn't always the greatest idea finacially because you either hurt feelings or win less than you should. This is a great example because it's a lose/lose situation. Either you tell him, be a "good" friend and take a financial hit or take the pot, gain finacially and risk him being mad at you for what he could easily perceive as taking advantage of him. I'm of the opinion that while I'm playing poker I don't care if it's my friends, my grandmother or the pope, I'm there to take their money. If you're not going to play that way be prepared to sacrifice finacially to have a "more enjoyable" game. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with that, it's just not my preference.

[semaj550 0]

yes you are right, cards speak if they are turned face up in a casino. The dealer is suppose to announce the hand and it wins if it was the best. A home game is different cause nobody is obligated to announce the hand. Your on your own, and if you are not paying attention, i say thats your faultOk, i have a related story. i'm playing at the Bike in a 2-4 limit holdem game. there has been alot of betting so the pot is pretty healthy. i'm at the river and i bet and get one caller. I announce my hand as trips and show face up. The new player who called me, looks t my hand and then nods his head and mucks his hand face down. One of the other players who had folded on the turn, wanted to see how this new guy plays and says" i want to see what your bettin with". He then grabs the guys hand , which is already mucked but it didn't touch the other mucked cards and the dealer hasn't gone to collect them yet, and flips them over. The new player had a nut flush but didn't know he hit it.Now, you tell me who wins this pot.

You, without any question. It's one player to a hand: period. If anyone tries to tell you otherwise you should call the floor and make sure you get your pot.

[JoeWalsh 0]

Most tables have a "cards speak" rule. If he shows his hand face up, his straight is in play no matter what he says he has.

This is what they play at the Vic in London and at our home games - the 'table talks'.Nice forums btw.

[Diabolical 0]

ok, well i did win the pot. But this older man who looks like a long time player, starts saying out loud that the floorman was wrong and the new guy should have got the pot. I'm a little peeved at the guy who flipped the cards over cus he started alot of controversey. As i was scooping in the pot the new guy had a look on his face like i stole it from him cause the older man keeps sayin that the pot is not mine. While he's doin that, i'm telling the guy who flipped over the cards to not do that again cuz now some people at the table think i'm some kind of bad person and i'm getting away with a big pot. The old man's argument is "cards speak". What my rebuttle was " your forgetting that the new guy mucked his hand face down and didn't make any attempt to retrieve his hand"I'm glad you posted the rule. Really helped out

[semaj550 0]

ok, well i did win the pot. But this older man who looks like a long time player, starts saying out loud that the floorman was wrong and the new guy should have got the pot. I'm a little peeved at the guy who flipped the cards over cus he started alot of controversey. As i was scooping in the pot the new guy had a look on his face like i stole it from him cause the older man keeps sayin that the pot is not mine. While he's doin that, i'm telling the guy who flipped over the cards to not do that again cuz now some people at the table think i'm some kind of bad person and i'm getting away with a big pot. The old man's argument is "cards speak". What my rebuttle was " your forgetting that the new guy mucked his hand face down and didn't make any attempt to retrieve his hand"I'm glad you posted the rule. Really helped out

Don't get me started on the guy that grabbed the cards, he was very much in the wrong and should have been told so by the dealer and the floorperson. And cards only speak when they are legitimately in play. Mucked cards are NOT in play and DO NOT speak. That's like mucking pocket 4's and the river puts 2 4's on board so you grab your cards out of the muck and say "Cards speak, give me my pot!" Okay, so my example is pretty rediculous but it's the same sort of idea.

[Diabolical 0]

ok, i saw that you wrote "one player per hand"I have a story for that one. I'm playin seven card stud at the bike and i'm in seat 5 and my lone opponent on the river is sitting at seat 7. This lady was goin for her straight and was transfixed on getting that hand. So on the river after i bet and she called, i announce " Queens up". The lady had been runnin bad and says " yea that figures" and picks up her cards and throws them in the muck face down. NOW, a man in seat 8, who was looking at her hole cards as she was looking at them before she mucked, grabs the cards out of her hand as she was about to let them land on the green face down and says" laaaady, you have kings up!!!"so tell me, who wins this hand?