1/2 Nlhe (6 Max) Aq(s) 3-bet From Sb

[Merby 3]

These two hands arise from situations where I was the last pre-flop raiser, and elected to not make a continuation bet when I missed the flop.Hand #1:Villain's stats: 39/17 through 23 hands (small sample size, but definitely seems LAGGY)I'm often making a continuation bet on the flop when I am the last raiser pre-flop. Nevertherless, I find that I actually am less likely to make a continuation bet on a flop when I have 3-bet PF (as opposed to my continuation bet percentage when I only put in the first pre-flop raise and there is no 3-bet). Does anyone else find themselves less likely to make a continuation bet after 3-betting, or is it just me?My reasoning: I've found that after 3-betting PF, people give your flop check more respect (they think it is more likely to indicate a possible monster). There is also the obvious pot control justification: the pot will grow much more rapidly after a 3-bet preflop and a flop continuation bet than without any 3-bet preflop. It's obviously a bad idea to allow the pot to balloon without actually connecting with the flop.Thus, I felt that in this hand, my opponent's flop action would more likely reflect his *actual* hand strength, thus when he checked behind, I was certain that I was ahead when the Q came on the turn. Does anyone dispute this line of reasoning?Would you ever choose to check a flop like this after 3-betting PF? Does your line differ than my approach?PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Hero ($473.20)BB ($215.70)UTG ($198.25)MP ($105.60)Button ($215.65)Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, A. 1 fold, MP raises to $8, 1 fold, Hero raises to $26, 1 fold, MP calls $18.Flop: ($54) 2, 8, K(2 players)Hero checks, MP checks.Turn: ($54) Q(2 players)Hero bets $26, MP calls $26.River: ($106) 9(2 players)Hero bets $26, MP calls $26.Final Pot: $158(edited for legibility)

[Merby 3]

Hand #2: Here's a similar situation, so I thought I would add it to this thread:This is the same situation, except that in this case, there was no 3-bet preflop. Obviously my decision is easier if I bet earlier in the hand and get to see his action on an earlier street. Again, I reiterate, I normally cont-bet after being the PFR, but am trying to cut back a bit. That has led to more difficult decisions later in the hand. So I have a three-part question:1) How often would you *not* make a continuation bet in a spot like this on this flop?2) Assuming you elect to check the flop, how do you play the rest of the hand?3) Assuming the hand plays as it has, should I consider calling the river here? BB stats: 28/8 through 120 hands.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)UTG ($98.80)Hero ($351.10)CO ($209)Button ($121.85)SB ($204.65)BB ($169.15)Preflop: Hero is MP with Q, A. 1 fold, Hero raises to $8, 3 folds, BB calls $6.Flop: ($17) 6, J, 7(2 players)BB checks, Hero checks.Turn: ($17) 7(2 players)BB checks, Hero checks.River: ($17) 3(2 players)BB bets $18, Hero...?Final Pot: $53

[nomad_monad 0]

first hand:not sure about this. on a dry flop, i think villain checks behind with AK/AA/QQ a decent amount of times precisely because a pf 3-bet followed by an unexpected flop check engenders respect/suspicion. (though obviously QQ wasn't the case here) plus if he's WA, he might check to induce lesser hands to stick around.second hand:i cbet that board a lot. relatively dry, villain usually has a piece of it if he calls thus giving us pretty good info later in the hand to either give it up or pull a move. i don't cbet if villain is a maniac non-believer who likes to c/r or float OOP against boards like that based on multi-level thinking that bases itself exactly on the logic i cited above. i typically save my delayed continuation bets (in position) for more ragged flops that have some sort of draw (that doesn't complete on the turn).

[rdtedm 0]

1st Hand:Looks a lot like your 3-bet pf scared him into C/C mode. I wouldn't be surprised to see a hand like AK here. Alternatively, he couldve also caught the queen.2nd Hand:WTF? Call for information, if not also because you probably have the best hand.

[rdtedm 0]

Hmm.. I guess in the second hand that villain could hold 3-3. I'd probably still call.. Too many stupid players make bluffs like this that dont make sense.

[tskillz187 0]

Only read hand 1 so far. I pretty much don't like anything you said about checking after 3 betting OOP preflop. I almost 100% throw a C-bet out there heads up. You already inflated the pot with your 3 bet, you have control and should keep it. If people are more likely to show you the true strength of their hand after 3 betting why not bet the flop and take it down when they didn't connect with top pair or better?As played the turn bet is fine but I don't like the river bet. You basically gave Villain 3 shots to win this pot on each street and he failed to take it on any. If I'm Villain I'm calling your river bet with all kings and either raising or folding with anything worse, with the exception of possibly just calling with a Q.

[tskillz187 0]

Hand 2: Playing a hand this passively makes me want to kill babies. I'm for serious. I think you must be running bad/on a downswing because I don't like how you played either of these hands and usually I like your play fine.I C-bet this flop 90-95% of the time.If I check the flop I bet the turn once checked to, even though that looks weak as hell at least I'm not faced with calling a bet on the river with my A high because I played it so passive and think it might be good.I fold to the river bet. I don't like to call pot sized river bets with nothing, even when the pot was kept that small. I really don't want opponents to see me playing this passively.

[Lavitz 0]

Only read hand 1 so far. I pretty much don't like anything you said about checking after 3 betting OOP preflop. I almost 100% throw a C-bet out there heads up. You already inflated the pot with your 3 bet, you have control and should keep it. If people are more likely to show you the true strength of their hand after 3 betting why not bet the flop and take it down when they didn't connect with top pair or better?As played the turn bet is fine but I don't like the river bet. You basically gave Villain 3 shots to win this pot on each street and he failed to take it on any. If I'm Villain I'm calling your river bet with all kings and either raising or folding with anything worse, with the exception of possibly just calling with a Q.

Villain can't raise bluff river in first hand very effectively because with his shortstack t would essentially be a min reraise. I don't mind first hand that much. It extracts value from weaker Qs and middle PPs and since villain isn't deep he isn't going to push you off anything with your river blocking bet.2nd hand, bet somewhere. Fold river. I can tell you called but I don't think your good enough to call here. We have no info here to work on so it would just be a blind call basically.

[krup24 0]

If you keep playing hands like this your missing out and losing a ton of cash.

[tskillz187 0]

Villain can't raise bluff river in first hand very effectively because with his shortstack t would essentially be a min reraise. I don't mind first hand that much. It extracts value from weaker Qs and middle PPs and since villain isn't deep he isn't going to push you off anything with your river blocking bet.

Ah, missed stack size.

[mtdesmoines 3]

These two hands arise from situations where I was the last pre-flop raiser, and elected to not make a continuation bet when I missed the flop.Hand #1:Villain's stats: 39/17 through 23 hands (small sample size, but definitely seems LAGGY)I'm often making a continuation bet on the flop when I am the last raiser pre-flop. Nevertherless, I find that I actually am less likely to make a continuation bet on a flop when I have 3-bet PF (as opposed to my continuation bet percentage when I only put in the first pre-flop raise and there is no 3-bet). Does anyone else find themselves less likely to make a continuation bet after 3-betting, or is it just me?My reasoning: I've found that after 3-betting PF, people give your flop check more respect (they think it is more likely to indicate a possible monster). There is also the obvious pot control justification: the pot will grow much more rapidly after a 3-bet preflop and a flop continuation bet than without any 3-bet preflop. It's obviously a bad idea to allow the pot to balloon without actually connecting with the flop.Thus, I felt that in this hand, my opponent's flop action would more likely reflect his *actual* hand strength, thus when he checked behind, I was certain that I was ahead when the Q came on the turn. Does anyone dispute this line of reasoning?Would you ever choose to check a flop like this after 3-betting PF? Does your line differ than my approach?PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Hero ($473.20)BB ($215.70)UTG ($198.25)MP ($105.60)Button ($215.65)Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, A. 1 fold, MP raises to $8, 1 fold, Hero raises to $26, 1 fold, MP calls $18.Flop: ($54) 2, 8, K(2 players)Hero checks, MP checks.Turn: ($54) Q(2 players)Hero bets $26, MP calls $26.River: ($106) 9(2 players)Hero bets $26, MP calls $26.Final Pot: $158(edited for legibility)

Heads up, I c-bet every flop. I bet the turn harder, since I didn't get c-r'ed.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Hand #2: Here's a similar situation, so I thought I would add it to this thread:This is the same situation, except that in this case, there was no 3-bet preflop. Obviously my decision is easier if I bet earlier in the hand and get to see his action on an earlier street. Again, I reiterate, I normally cont-bet after being the PFR, but am trying to cut back a bit. That has led to more difficult decisions later in the hand. So I have a three-part question:1) How often would you *not* make a continuation bet in a spot like this on this flop?2) Assuming you elect to check the flop, how do you play the rest of the hand?3) Assuming the hand plays as it has, should I consider calling the river here? BB stats: 28/8 through 120 hands.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)UTG ($98.80)Hero ($351.10)CO ($209)Button ($121.85)SB ($204.65)BB ($169.15)Preflop: Hero is MP with Q, A. 1 fold, Hero raises to $8, 3 folds, BB calls $6.Flop: ($17) 6, J, 7(2 players)BB checks, Hero checks.Turn: ($17) 7(2 players)BB checks, Hero checks.River: ($17) 3(2 players)BB bets $18, Hero...?Final Pot: $53

That's a pretty junky flop and I c-bet that, too. Pressure reveals strength.

[Merby 3]

Hand 2: Playing a hand this passively makes me want to kill babies. I'm for serious. I think you must be running bad/on a downswing because I don't like how you played either of these hands and usually I like your play fine.I C-bet this flop 90-95% of the time.If I check the flop I bet the turn once checked to, even though that looks weak as hell at least I'm not faced with calling a bet on the river with my A high because I played it so passive and think it might be good.I fold to the river bet. I don't like to call pot sized river bets with nothing, even when the pot was kept that small. I really don't want opponents to see me playing this passively.

Yep, you pretty much summed it up with the bolded line right there. I have been going through a bad down-swing, and have obviously compounded the issue by letting it change my normal playing style. If you saw my other threads, you could be certain I had even hit the "second-guessing" stage on the east preflop decisions. I mean, I posted a question about how much to 4-bet AA pre-flop against a nit who raised and reraised me. I followed that up with a post asking whether I should set mine in a situation where we were both comfortably deep.Bottom line: downswings *suck*. It was so bad today, that I found myself stepping *up* in limits today instead of stepping down (it's always a major sign of tilt when you choose to step up instead of stepping down). Fortunately for me, I escaped with a small win.Anyway, now back to the hands in question. I totally butchered them from the start, and the reluctance of pulling the trigger on the flop compounded my troubles. I have gone back and reread my original posts... Ugh! It's so obvious that I'm playing scared due to my downswing.My next post (which will follow immediately) will give the results.

[Merby 3]

Hand #1 I should have c-bet the flop. The K is a great scare card to represent as the 3-bettor. The check was terrible, and I simply got lucky on the turn.RESULTS: Villain rolled over TT and I took down the pot.Hand #2 Yikes! Talk about butchering a hand! If I c-bet here, I would have found out a lot of info. RESULTS: I donk-called and villain rolled over K 7 for trip 7's.

[tskillz187 0]

You prove the kind of player and person you are when things are going crappy. Just keep plugging, stay confident, and lastly be optimistic even though you are getting kicked in the balls. Obv easier said than done.Lastly, 1-2nl players online just aren't that bad, so mix in bad cards, bad beats, and scared play and it's near impossible to break even much less win.