Jerry Yang And Chris Ferguson

[CBass1724 1]

You do realize that the dealers aren't personally responsible for your luck, right?

Yeah, obviously God is personally responsible.

[suicideking 0]

good observation here.i think this is what i was getting at when kitten killer went rambo on me. when meals are very expensive i'll lower my tip a bit from 20 percent, but when it's lunch or something and the bill is small, i'll raise my tipping because i feel that i should be tipping for the service and not the cost of the food.why should someone get tipped less during the lunch (cheaper bills) rush when people are SOOOO demanding b/c of lunch time constraints, but more during dinner (more expensive bills) when it's a bit more relaxed. we are tipping for their service and attention right?

I don't just tip, I overtip.....that is my philosphy

Both QFT. The best tippers leave what they think you deserve, regardless of the bill. I've had 200% tips before. Brag post?

[StrippersNBlow 0]

Mimimum wage is $7 in Illinois. JS.

The girl at Outback bringing you your blooming onion is making $2.13 + tips. Whoever brings you your drink at the casino isn't making $7 either. I'm not sure about dealers.

[GetSprung 0]

The girl at Outback bringing you your blooming onion is making $2.13 + tips. Whoever brings you your drink at the casino isn't making $7 either. I'm not sure about dealers.

Tipped positions make less than minimum wage. I'm 99% sure it was $6.43, but it might've been $6.73 so please don't hold me to it. And to balloon guy, I'll tell you what my final tally is next thursday when I receive my final paycheck.

[Zach6668 513]

I haven't read all of the replies, but here's are a few of my thoughts.Every single person who puts up $10,000 to play this tournament should know what their money is doing. x% goes to Harrah's in the form of a rake, y% goes to the dealers/floor staff, etc. This is very common amongst live tournaments. I know this despite having very little experience with them. The people who actually do play these events have no excuse to not know where their money is going.Secondly, it's quite incorrect, imo to say that the dude who won first place tipped $180k or whatever the number is. He tipped y% of his $10,000 buyin just like each person who entered the event, including the guy who got 2nd, and the guy who bubbled, and the guy who busted first. To sit there and ***** because you're think you've already tipped $180k is ridiculous. If we think like that, he's tipped $180k, and the guys who played for 3 days and bubbled have tipped nothing, so each of them should go back and make sure they leave a toke. It's silly. Every single person who played this event has tipped. If someone wants to leave something on top of that, I believe it's their own decision. If you feel like the y% of your buyin that you tipped was enough, then fine. If you feel the staff sucked, then fine. We all know GetSprung sucks at dealing. (Jk, I love you).From the dealer's perspective. I don't know exactly how Harrah's splits up the y%, but you should know exactly what you are getting into when you decide to apply for a job there. You know, when you are hired that you are making $6.73 (or $6.43, or whatever Sprung was saying), and you make tokes from cash games (which generally just depend on your overall awesomeness at dealing. When you deal tournament hands, you get whatever your cut of the y% was. You should know this before you decide to accept the job. You shouldn't just expect some lucky donk who wins the ME will tip more than he had previously agreed to (y%). If he does, then that's just like a Christmas bonus.All of this tipping drives me nuts. I understand that dealers make $6/hr, but they shouldn't (or anyone who works for tips) EXPECT a tip, they should work for it. If a dealer is doing a good job, I have no problem tipping when I win a pot, or at the end of his or her session. I'm playing poker for a living myself. There's no reason for me to tip an extravagant amount. If I'm playing 10/20 LHE at the casino, and I win a pot, there's no reason for me to be tipping several dollars for each pot I win. Doing that will HUGELY impact my own bottom line, if I did it for every single pot. Especially in a game like LHE, where the gains are so marginal. As always though, if a dealer is moving the game along quickly, then I'll always leave a tip whether I win a pot or not. Even if I don't win a pot for the 30 mins they are in, I may toss a few bucks to him/her as he/she leaves the table, as long as they did a good job. If they did a poor job, why should I tip them?I think that's all I've got to say on the issue. If I'm off base on any of my assumptions (there weren't many), please tell me.- Zach

[GetSprung 0]

Every single person who played this event has tipped. If someone wants to leave something on top of that, I believe it's their own decision. If you feel like the y% of your buyin that you tipped was enough, then fine. If you feel the staff sucked, then fine. We all know GetSprung sucks at dealing. (Jk, I love you).Bingo. This is the point EVERYONE seems to be missing here. Jerry Yang tipped 180k? NO ****ING WAY. Chris Ferguson contributed as much of a tip by way of the prize pool percentage withheld as Jerry Yang did. To say this is the reason you shouldn't leave extra is insaneI think that's all I've got to say on the issue. If I'm off base on any of my assumptions (there weren't many), please tell me.Not off base at all, actually very well put. Except for the part where you said I sucked at dealing. Just because you only got 3 beers in 6 hours does NOT mean I suck as a dealer. I only dealt to 3 FCPers here, and I'm pretty sure they know how much I truly suck. Thanks for getting my back in this debate(I think?). Moral of the story, TIP HOWEVER THE **** YOU WANT TO TIP. If you tip extravagantly good for you. If you don't tip at all good for you. The tippers will always outway those who stiff dealers and that's a fact.

[Pivvy2001 0]

in reply to Zach and Sprung, I am thinking that you might have misunderstood, not everyone elsepeople are not saying that Yang shouldn't tip because it's already like he tipped $180K, people are saying that because everyone already had some tips come out of their buying there is no reason that he should feel compelled to have to tip a percentage of his win; the idea is that tipping a percentage (even 1 percent) becomes an obscene tip when you win $8.5 million; so the fact is not that he shouldn't have to tip because he already tipped $180K, it is just that tips are factored in, period!Sprung, I have said this before, you want more money because that is your business; that makes sense to me, every time wages go up in the field of my chosen profession I am happy about it, too; however, to suggest that an item (like a tip) is expected or should be expected or that it is ludicrous to suggest that it is unnecessary is ridiculous; tips are designed to reward good service, not to reward general service and compensate for a bad minimum wage (that is a side effect); I assume, however, that you make a good wage based on your description of yourself as a good dealer;

[mase_gotsem 0]

i think tipping everywhere should be stopped.i lived in japan for a year and never had better service in my life yet there is never any tip for anything. i've seen foriengers try to give tip only to have it pushed back and forth many times. to some japanese people, they think it's insulting that you need to give them extra money to treat you well.

this was interesting and awsome but wldnt work in north america becouse ppl are too greedy and alot only give good service when they think they will be tipped good

i'm not telling you that you shouldn't tip. i think it should just be included too. i worked as a waiter at a coffee place for a year and a busboy/bartender for a summer so i know how important tip is to the underpaid employee. but what i'm saying is the entire tipping system doesn't work. the whole idea is that you're rewarding good service and punishing bad thereby encouraging people to give great service, yet i don't think it works in reality. all it encourages people to do is give good service to who they THINK will give good tip."oh they are asian, they aren't going to give good tip, don't try so hard""oh they're just teenagers, they can't afford to tip well.""they look rich. i'll bring their order first and check up on them often.""she's hot. i'm gonna service her.""women don't tip as much, generally.""drunk middle aged white guys. GREAT!""oh, a guy on a date with a girl. this should be good."i've seen a no tipping society where the employees don't get tip. i'm assuming they just get a higher base salary and i always had excellent service, even in some crummy fast food joints.EDIT: i usually tip 10 percent for bad service, 15 for average and 20 for great. unless the bill is huge, in which case i lower it a bit.

hit the nail on the head i cant stand these type of ppl and i hate to leave them a tip at all which i still do.

If you really want to spread a little karma in the world.. Tip your gas station attendents, drive-thru window girls, and your convenience store clerks, if they are quality.. Because trust me, those folks are the ones with the really $#!tty jobs..

qft i ALWAYs tip these ppl or try to atleast when they give good service all in all i dont feel u shld "have" to tip after a big tourny win becouse an X amount has already been taken into acount . there said i wld have no problem what so ever to go and find the dealers who treated me great and fair and toss them a hundo or so if i won 8 mill it wld be higher but i find it sux that they have to share tips when 80 % of the dealers suck and are complete asholes which ruin it for the 20% who are awsome and friendly

[Loismustdie 0]

As a waiter for the last 5 years, I can tell you, most people follow those exact guidelines. A black couple comes in, no one wants to wait on them, so I take extra tables. I give the same service I would give to anyone else, and what happens? I leave with the most money every single night. Everyone's money is green. More tables = more money. Don't ever sacrifice service though. Its so easy to be so good at this job, and its appalling when I personally go out, because anyone who has ever waited tables, then turn around and go out themselves can attest to, you find something wrong with the service you get. I will be the first to agree that the vast majority of tipped employees are quite bad, and usually rely on the better team members to continually bring back the customers. People like getsprung, and myself are the ones who do deserve tipping IMO. We take our job seriously, and never compromise what we do, whether we know you're going to stiff us or not. POTYReread his post. Put down the cat. QFT

No, I read his post. It's a generalization that just isn't true. Some servers do think that way, but the majority that I worked with didn't. That **** just didn't fly- if you came into the job pulling stunts like that, guess who was going to get busted with a bag of weed in there bag? The idiot that wouldn't take tables based on dumb **** like that. The vast majority of tipped employees aren't all that bad- you are just to demanding because you feel you are Gods gift to service. I know,I have been there,I recognize the symptoms. I was just like you- everybody got the same service, unless you were an *******, in which case you got the bare minimum, like assholes deserve.

[Lrgetrout 1]

Tipped positions make less than minimum wage. I'm 99% sure it was $6.43, but it might've been $6.73 so please don't hold me to it. And to balloon guy, I'll tell you what my final tally is next thursday when I receive my final paycheck.

Exception: California. Employers in California may not take a tip credit. They have to pay minimum wage (currently $7.50) no matter what.(JS. Carry on.)

[Zach6668 513]

in reply to Zach and Sprung, I am thinking that you might have misunderstood, not everyone elsepeople are not saying that Yang shouldn't tip because it's already like he tipped $180K, people are saying that because everyone already had some tips come out of their buying there is no reason that he should feel compelled to have to tip a percentage of his win; the idea is that tipping a percentage (even 1 percent) becomes an obscene tip when you win $8.5 million; so the fact is not that he shouldn't have to tip because he already tipped $180K, it is just that tips are factored in, period!Sprung, I have said this before, you want more money because that is your business; that makes sense to me, every time wages go up in the field of my chosen profession I am happy about it, too; however, to suggest that an item (like a tip) is expected or should be expected or that it is ludicrous to suggest that it is unnecessary is ridiculous; tips are designed to reward good service, not to reward general service and compensate for a bad minimum wage (that is a side effect); I assume, however, that you make a good wage based on your description of yourself as a good dealer;

Did you even read my post? Or did you just completely misunderstand it?GetSprung's as well.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

It's in the best interests of anybody who wins the main event to leave a tip whether they think the percentage taken from the prize pool for the staff is adequate or not.Bad P.R. is more of a financial negative then leaving even a substantial tip.

[grocery_mony 8]

It's in the best interests of anybody who wins the main event to leave a tip whether they think the percentage taken from the prize pool for the staff is adequate or not.Bad P.R. is more of a financial negative then leaving even a substantial tip.

qft. just look at Jamie Gold for what can happen to what should be at least a 5 year freeroll from winning the main event if you come off as a *******.

[Pivvy2001 0]

qft. just look at Jamie Gold for what can happen to what should be at least a 5 year freeroll from winning the main event if you come off as a *******.

Jamie Gold came off as an *** for entirely different reasonsI am sorry, but Jerry Yang is unlikely to suffer ANY financial consequences at all for not tipping (as evidence of that note the fact that it was Chris Ferguson that accompanied him, one of pokers most respected players); being a jerk might cost you money later but not tipping is simply not going to be linked as being the same thing (or at least not tipping in this situation); if Yang doesn't tip in restaurants or to the pizza guy that might cause an issue, but this is simply not going to cause him financial ramifications; And certainly not $200K worth

[sabes99 0]

just to add to this conversation because i'm bored and this is interesting...basically, as has been noted, EVERYONE gives dealers an equal and mandatory tip before the tournament, it's similar to restaurants where the tip is included in the bill, (i went to one such restaurant in canada, i don't know if they're all like that) except that in the restaurant situation you will see almost no one leave an additional tip once they find that there is an extra 15% in their billnow once you've got that out of the way, then you may choose to leave an additional tip if you wish...if you don't, then you don't, if you do, then you do, it's a completely personal decision and no one is forcing you to tip if you don't want to...to say that yang is out of line for not tipping is insane, that's his decision overall, and if i were him and had only been playing live tournaments for a short time and chris ferguson told me not to leave anything extra, i would listen to him toohowever, the people who said that no one should ever tip are also insane...if you feel like you got good service at a restaurant/bar/poker tournament then it's a common courtesy to leave a tip for those people who served you...if you feel like you got bad service, then one way to show your displeasure is to not tip...this is the way it should be and no one should feel like they've done wrong for not tipping if they felt service was inadequatebottom line is that it's a personal decision, the only way i could take issue one way or the other is if someone felt the service was good and stiffed the dealers and staff for no reason

[Zach6668 513]

re: 15% gratuity included in the bill...It's not like that everywhere in Canada, in fact, I've seen it more in the US...Typically, restaurants just apply to to partys of over X people... usually like 6 or 8, cuz those guys never tip a good %age... (not never, don't yell at me), but like you see a lot of the people "$20 is a fine tip, don't tip more!" when the bill was $1000 or something for 10 people.

[suicideking 0]

No, I read his post. It's a generalization that just isn't true. Some servers do think that way, but the majority that I worked with didn't. That **** just didn't fly- if you came into the job pulling stunts like that, guess who was going to get busted with a bag of weed in there bag? The idiot that wouldn't take tables based on dumb **** like that. The vast majority of tipped employees aren't all that bad- you are just to demanding because you are Gods gift to service. I know,I have been there,I recognize the symptoms. I was just like you- everybody got the same service, unless you were an *******, in which case you got the bare minimum, like assholes deserve.

FYP

[grocery_mony 8]

One fact in the service industry that I heard recently really surprised me. At some locations the waiters and waitress tip out(for bartenders, dishwashers, etc) 5% of there total gross for the night not based on the tips they recieved. So if there total bills for the night total $2000 they have to tip out $100 regardless of there tips. So if they get stiffed on a couple big bills for the night they hardly make anything extra for the night. Another thing alot of people dont know is the complimentary drinks you get in Vegas casinos are actually not free for the cocktail waitress. most casinos charge ussually $.50 for each drink(yes this includes bottled water) the cw's take out from the bar. So if you dont tip they actually lose money from you.

[GabeTheKid 0]

I'm all for tipping and I have absolutely NO problem doing it. Proof is that I usually leave 20-25% for good waiters/waitresses, conversely I leave 10% for bad waiters but I've never not left a tip, I leave tips for haircuts, something that is rarely done, and I always tip the dealer no matter how small the pot I drag is. So it's safe to say I'm a pretty generous guy when it comes to tips.But why should the guy who won $8.5 mill have to pay more than the guy that won $6 mill? Why does 1st place have to pay more than 2nd? They both received the same service for the same duration but one is expected to pay more than the other? I think everyone should pay an X amount no matter what they finish, that is, if they finish in the money. Maybe final table pays X amount more, but I don't think someone should have to pay more than another simply because they had a good day.$8.5 million or not, $100k is still $100k and I think it's a little excessive. Maybe if I had such a huge score like that then I would be more inclined to tip that amount of money, but from the outside looking in, I think it's ridiculous.Whether the dealers like it or no, they work a low education job. They don't deserve to make $100k/year. They deal cards. Something a 16 year old with no previous experience can pick up and learn in 2 months or less. IMO, dealers are overpaid.

you contradicted yourself:scenario: My friend and I go to a restaurant. I order 150$ worth of food while he orders 50$ worth of food. We both got the same service, rigth? why should I tip more than my friend just because the plate the waiter/waiteress carried out is more expensive? if 1st place and 2nd place should tip the same amount then me and my friend at the restuarant should also tip the same amount. as for tips in general, I don't believe that tips should be expected. Although I still tip in the neigbourhood of 15-20 percent on average, i still believe that it's retarded. I just don't want to seem cheap and so i leave good tips for good waiters. I've never been to a casino yet since i only recently turned 19 but don't think that you should tip every pot you drag. I think only the big ones you should tip for. Well, actually i belive you shouldn't be expected to tip since they're getting a salary. If I tip dealers for dealing cards then you should tip every other service. what's the difference?In conclusion, I believe tips should exist, but they shouldn't be expected.

[Suited_Up 2]

One fact in the service industry that I heard recently really surprised me. At some locations the waiters and waitress tip out(for bartenders, dishwashers, etc) 5% of there total gross for the night not based on the tips they recieved. So if there total bills for the night total $2000 they have to tip out $100 regardless of there tips. So if they get stiffed on a couple big bills for the night they hardly make anything extra for the night. Another thing alot of people dont know is the complimentary drinks you get in Vegas casinos are actually not free for the cocktail waitress. most casinos charge ussually $.50 for each drink(yes this includes bottled water) the cw's take out from the bar. So if you dont tip they actually lose money from you.

5% if you're lucky.Where I work, we tip out closer to 10%We have to calculate 18% of our sales. (They assume we got tipped at least 18% every time).... Then tip out 45% of that number.You tip out nearly half your tips, depending on how good your night was.

[bigstack1980 0]

I live in Texas but did for about a year live in Vegas and everyone and their momma wants tips.... I go to Dairy Queen and they person taking my money has a tip jar... LOL im like dude we dont have there in texas... makes you feel guilty and the same with shopping the cashier person has a tip jar.... as if they dont make good as it is.... Oh well... i guess if you win it big they want to get money out of a person somehow.... but if they already took out a percentage of a tip... WITHOUT you knowing I would not pay them extra.... and if Chris Ferguson wasnt there would had anyone told him they Auto Tipped already?

[GetSprung 0]

Pleast let this thread die. Whichever moron thought that dealers in the United States received a salary is just that, a moron. When I mentioned SEVERAL times that I made below minimum wage does that sound like a salary to you? Please, this thread is getting repetitive and all the important arguments are just being recycled.

[rgold79 0]

Ooh, fun, a tipping thread. Where's the one where the guy claimed players on HSP tipped $1K/hand and it degenerated into 20 boring pages of back and forth?I don't know why this hits such a raw nerve with people. It only money guys, you can't take it with you.

[NoxKo 0]

As a person who worked as a waiter for 10 years, best answer ever.

Dealers and waiters are 2 completely different occupations as far as tips are concerned.But I'm sure you already knew that.

[MJINK3 0]

If the no tipping EXTRA(more than the 1.8%) at the end is continued by winners and champions will there be a shortage of dealers who will work the WSOP forcing them to increase the intial amount(2-3%) making the total payout to the winner less? And also what was the percentage of other event winners besides the main event winner who did or did not tip? And if I won a $2,000 event, won $460,00 and tipped $4,600. Would that go to ALL dealers or just the ones who worked my event?