Jerry Yang And Chris Ferguson

[gobears 0]

Link to actual story - some good comments and 2+2 has a thread going too.Pokeratri LinkLAS VEGAS–The WSOP dealers, as mentioned before, were wanting to see Jerry Yang win for the sake of a bigger tip. He couldn’t have had a reputation as a big tipper — because as a guy playing in his first WSOP and with no noted accomplishments high-stakes or otherwise, how could they know? Perhaps they saw him as a mark … an inexperienced player who had already committed 10 percent of his winnings to charity might be easily persuaded to “give a little back,” if you know what I’m sayin’.Not sure what Yang’s intentions were as he walked into the payouts room … but Chris Ferguson reportedly joined him — not because he was invited, but because he was a Full Tilt guy looking after a Full Tilt player. When the payout ladies asked what he would like to leave for the dealers, Ferguson supposedly informed him that he had already given 2 percent. Nolan Dalla corrected him, saying, “Actually it’s 1.8 percent.” [Ed. Note: Inaccurate as originally reported. We regret/apologize for the error lazy journalism.]At that point Ferguson pointed out what that came out to — $148,500 by my calculations, but not certain that’s the number he cited — and said, according to a mostly reliable source who was in the payouts room, “So I recommend zero.”And so that’s what Yang left — either $148,500ish or $0, depending on how you look at it.The dealers were a bit pissed — probably more because they had their high hopes yanked from under them (just like they did last year when rumors circulated that Jamie Gold was going to tip $1 million) than the actual dollars in play. From any extra tips left at the WSOP, 30 percent goes to the floor staff, and 70 percent is distributed to dealers based on the number of “downs” they put in. Though I may need to doublecheck the math — Chris Ferguson is better at math than I am — a tip of, say, an additional $100k would’ve meant anywhere between an extra $250 and $500 for main event dealers.Regardless of how the exact numbers work out, it brings up a very fair issue for discussion about how to handle tipping of big tournament wins. Harrah’s, after all, does indeed take out money to guarantee that WSOP dealers can earn a fair wage. But does that mean it should be left up to the “kinder” players to subsidize their income. I know a lot of pros would rather have tournament officials deduct a higher percentage, and then attempt to enforce a no-tipping policy.Of course you can’t stop someone from finding a person who provided them excellent service and rivers and giving them a little something extra. And a few pros seem to be aware of this.Second-place finisher Tuan Lam, for example, reportedly went around to floor staff, dealers, and crew to give them direct tips in cash. In the neighborhood of $200. Of all these tokes he may or may not have spread around, it’s hard to know how many of them actually made it into the official shared tournament tipping pool, and how many went directly into the pockets of temporary employees who felt they had it coming to them.

[Waffles2003 1]

I would have tipped 0 as well...

[NoSup4U 0]

there have been many a long thread about this, generally right after the WSOP ME.They take a huge chunk out already for tips is my opinion, and they've increased it the last few years I believe. Most dealers feel like they get screwed though, so I dunno the right answer.Mark

[Steamed Rice 0]

Just deal the f'n cards and STFU or GTFO

[zimmer4141 0]

I personally don't get why a tip for some professions is expected, and some isn't.The service at Target when I shopped there today was good. Should I tip?I guess it's because the casinos want to squeeze every bit of profit out that they can. I wouldn't tip, I think they take enough out already.

[ShakeZuma 585]

I don't even play poker, nor know anything about the dealing situation at the world series, but do these smug assholes really think they deserve 250k for dealing cards for, at most, a couple of days?

[joethepro 0]

i think tipping everywhere should be stopped.i lived in japan for a year and never had better service in my life yet there is never any tip for anything. i've seen foriengers try to give tip only to have it pushed back and forth many times. to some japanese people, they think it's insulting that you need to give them extra money to treat you well.

[kennyg1966 0]

Do you tip the lottery guy for selling you the winning ticket NOT.....most lottery sellers get a comission anyways!!same here. NO tip !!

[SilentButDeadly3 0]

I'm all for tipping and I have absolutely NO problem doing it. Proof is that I usually leave 20-25% for good waiters/waitresses, conversely I leave 10% for bad waiters but I've never not left a tip, I leave tips for haircuts, something that is rarely done, and I always tip the dealer no matter how small the pot I drag is. So it's safe to say I'm a pretty generous guy when it comes to tips.But why should the guy who won $8.5 mill have to pay more than the guy that won $6 mill? Why does 1st place have to pay more than 2nd? They both received the same service for the same duration but one is expected to pay more than the other? I think everyone should pay an X amount no matter what they finish, that is, if they finish in the money. Maybe final table pays X amount more, but I don't think someone should have to pay more than another simply because they had a good day.$8.5 million or not, $100k is still $100k and I think it's a little excessive. Maybe if I had such a huge score like that then I would be more inclined to tip that amount of money, but from the outside looking in, I think it's ridiculous.Whether the dealers like it or no, they work a low education job. They don't deserve to make $100k/year. They deal cards. Something a 16 year old with no previous experience can pick up and learn in 2 months or less. IMO, dealers are overpaid.

[TheDelta 0]

I can completely understand Yang's action. If I'm a quite inexperienced tournament player and someone like Chris Ferguson recommends me not to tip more, I'd probably follow his advice, I mean if someone like him doesn't know what's right in a situation like this who does?

[GetSprung 0]

Just deal the f'n cards and STFU or GTFO

Seriously you people have no clue. Do a little research before you freak out and say people shouldn't be tipped. In cash games dealers make absolutely NO extra money from the casino and only make $6.43 an hour. So by your calculations dealing is a minimum wage job and should be rewarded accordingly? That's insane. I take my job very serious and politics make it so that I only get 3 days of tournament dealing a week and the rest is cash games. If you're not able to get guaranteed tips from the rake in the tourneys you're on your own. I deal the same quality in either cash games or tournaments but I agree that others do not. It's not my fault that Harrah's takes a percentage out of the prize pool. Pretty sure I didn't agree for Harrah's to take more money out of the prize pool.Seriously people, do a little research before you freak out. I agree that he shouldn't have tipped anything on top but to say that never tipping is a good plan is straight up obnoxious.

[jethrodull 0]

heh, he prayed to Jesus the whole time, and so shouldn't come as a suprised that Jesus helped in the cage too...seriously, good for CF for helping a noob out...that's coolJ

[MikeJohnson724 0]

I lol @ any one saying he didn't tip enough. What about all the people below yang that tipped? Why don't these billion dollar casinos pay there dealers higher? Why should it come out of my pocket? When I prepare a financial statement for a company, I don't receive a tip. When I do someones taxes and save them extra money, I don't receive a tip.I understand that dealers are underpaid, Is it the players fault? I think it's ridiculous when I am playing 1/2 nl and people are tipping 5 bucks a hand. IF the dealer got 1 dollar from everyone an hour, they would be making a fine hourly wait for there profession. I don't think dealing is an exciting job, and I wouldn't want to do it, but, I also don't think that dealers should be making 100k a year like many do.

[Czech Razor 0]

I personally don't get why a tip for some professions is expected, and some isn't.The service at Target when I shopped there today was good. Should I tip?I guess it's because the casinos want to squeeze every bit of profit out that they can. I wouldn't tip, I think they take enough out already.

It was funnier in Reservoir Dogs...

[GetSprung 0]

I lol @ any one saying he didn't tip enough. What about all the people below yang that tipped? Why don't these billion dollar casinos pay there dealers higher? Why should it come out of my pocket? When I prepare a financial statement for a company, I don't receive a tip. When I do someones taxes and save them extra money, I don't receive a tip.I understand that dealers are underpaid, Is it the players fault? I think it's ridiculous when I am playing 1/2 nl and people are tipping 5 bucks a hand. IF the dealer got 1 dollar from everyone an hour, they would be making a fine hourly wait for there profession. I don't think dealing is an exciting job, and I wouldn't want to do it, but, I also don't think that dealers should be making 100k a year like many do.

I love dealing, it's actually a great job. You get hours and hours of countless reads, tells, and chances to see if you're right in certain situations without risking your bankroll. It's like datamining live games and the best part is THEY PAY YOU! I love it, except that everyone is an *******. Meh, it's well worth the berating I take on a daily basis from crotchety old people.

[Pivvy2001 0]

Seriously you people have no clue. Do a little research before you freak out and say people shouldn't be tipped. In cash games dealers make absolutely NO extra money from the casino and only make $6.43 an hour. So by your calculations dealing is a minimum wage job and should be rewarded accordingly? That's insane. I take my job very serious and politics make it so that I only get 3 days of tournament dealing a week and the rest is cash games. If you're not able to get guaranteed tips from the rake in the tourneys you're on your own. I deal the same quality in either cash games or tournaments but I agree that others do not. It's not my fault that Harrah's takes a percentage out of the prize pool. Pretty sure I didn't agree for Harrah's to take more money out of the prize pool.Seriously people, do a little research before you freak out. I agree that he shouldn't have tipped anything on top but to say that never tipping is a good plan is straight up obnoxious.

careful your self interest is showingno one is questioning that you work hard, but to argue that it is obnoxious to say that you shouldn't tip is the exact reason why some people don't want to tip; tipping is supposed to be for excellent service, not for someone doing their job; the hourly wage that is paid is what it is, and dealers voluntarily choose to take that job; I personally always tip at the poker table, but I will say that I hate doing it and wish that it was not customary; it infuriates me when playing live in Vegas and watching the dealers at a low stakes table taking a dollar on every hand (they keep their own tips in most casinos, meaning they are making 25-40 bucks an hour in tips or maybe more) and that is simply a rate of pay that I don't feel is commensurate with the service being provided; you might work hard and you might earn your tips but to argue that it should be done or to argue that an argument against tipping is clueless is equally clueless on your partyour job is tough and often times thankless, however, tipping is still not a required thing; it is custom, which is why most people like me do it, but that in no way makes it something that MUST be done and by no way reduces an argument against the merits of tippingif I won the main event, I would definitely not tip any large amount; $100,000 is a lot of money and I would rather give it to family, charity, my alma mater, etc. than to dealers; that is not meant to be offensive, but just because you win a lot it doesn't mean that you should have to tip two BMWs worth; sadly, I would feel compelled to tip five or ten thousand dollars and I would be ridiculed as cheap, which might make me just decide to take the Jerry approach and justify it on the principle of the amount that Harrah's charges

[moto67e 0]

i think tipping everywhere should be stopped.i lived in japan for a year and never had better service in my life yet there is never any tip for anything. i've seen foriengers try to give tip only to have it pushed back and forth many times. to some japanese people, they think it's insulting that you need to give them extra money to treat you well.

QFMFT

[BeaverStyle 1]

Work as a waiter/waitress/bartender and then tell me that tipping should be stopped. Seriously.In all honesty, in restaurant situations, because of the fact that waitstaff gets paid through tips, I think bills should include a manditory 12-15% tip. Anything above that is up to the customer. You'd be surprised how many people simply don't know that waitstaff gets paid with tips... They believe tips are extra, on top of their $9-10 / hr wages. But yeah, I tip the dealer w/ any reasonable pot I get. Let's him know I appreciate his dealing, and in all honesty, I consider it Karma, kind of. Stop being a tight-wad and tip your damn dealer.As for the OP... if he didn't tip that's kinda heartless, but I think Chris Ferguson by his side might help him from potentially shafting the dealers.

[Chris E 0]

Why don't these billion dollar casinos pay there dealers higher? Why should it come out of my pocket? When I prepare a financial statement for a company, I don't receive a tip. When I do someones taxes and save them extra money, I don't receive a tip.I understand that dealers are underpaid, Is it the players fault? I think it's ridiculous when I am playing 1/2 nl and people are tipping 5 bucks a hand. IF the dealer got 1 dollar from everyone an hour, they would be making a fine hourly wait for there profession. I don't think dealing is an exciting job, and I wouldn't want to do it, but, I also don't think that dealers should be making 100k a year like many do.

I totally agree, and I'm just happy tipping is not expected in Aus. Its just like every other profession, if I don't like how much money I get paid I talk to the company I work for, or I find a new job. What I don't do is expect handouts from strangers.

[fitzinabox 0]

i was just playing some razz wiht chris ferguson on full tilt and asked him about this. he said the took one mil out of tourney buy ins and split it amongst harrahs employees

[GetSprung 0]

i was just playing some razz wiht chris ferguson on full tilt and asked him about this. he said the took one mil out of tourney buy ins and split it amongst harrahs employees

This is probably not accurate. Actually, It's probably more than this. Of course the number of employees that work the series isn't taken into account here. This seems to me to be a "lynch the dealers" thread.

[fitzinabox 0]

This is probably not accurate. Actually, It's probably more than this. Of course the number of employees that work the series isn't taken into account here. This seems to me to be a "lynch the dealers" thread.

Just passing on what Jesus himself told meand by the way my buddy and i put a nice dent in his goal of building 0 to 10 K lol

[Pivvy2001 0]

This is probably not accurate. Actually, It's probably more than this. Of course the number of employees that work the series isn't taken into account here. This seems to me to be a "lynch the dealers" thread.

it's not a lynch the dealers situation; it is a situation in which Harrah's takes about a million dollars and spreads it out amongst what is almost certainly less than 1,000 employees (if there is only a million that is $1,000 for the days of the main event); the dealers are being compensated; tipping is still a courteous and appropriate reply, but the fact that the dealers were expecting over one hundred thousand dollars makes them seem greedy and very much out of touch with realityAs one other note regarding dealer salaries, while I have never been a card dealer or waiter, common wisdom suggests that these cash intensive jobs often have people not disclose all of their earnings for tax purposes, which makes the tips collected have an even higher valueat the end of the day, I want dealers to be as happy as the next guy, I am just not going to criticize someone who doesn't want to contribute an obscene amount of money to the dealer pool when he can (and likely will) find a better use for that money

[MikeJohnson724 0]

I love dealing, it's actually a great job. You get hours and hours of countless reads, tells, and chances to see if you're right in certain situations without risking your bankroll. It's like datamining live games and the best part is THEY PAY YOU! I love it, except that everyone is an *******. Meh, it's well worth the berating I take on a daily basis from crotchety old people.

What's up Get. I am sure many dealers love there job man. I am just saying it doesn't excite me as my job doesn't excite many other people. I see nothing wrong in tipping the dealer. But, I do feel they are underpaid by the casinos. By no means is there job "easy." I feel they should be paid higher by casinos. Maybe even have a standard toke required by the casino?I just think the posts I read else ware are ridiculous. "Yang STIFFED the dealers" Give me a break. I think a couple dealers from Caesars told me that the tournament dealers are a "special" group of dealers and are usually higher paid than cash game dealers. I do not know how much each dealer gets from that 148,500 + the 1.8%, but I would be surprised if I felt that they were stiffed.

[GetSprung 0]

I just think the posts I read elseware are ridiculous. "Yang STIFFED the dealers" Give me a break. I think a couple dealers from Caesars told me that the tournament dealers are a "special" group of dealers and are usually higher paid than cash game dealers. I do not know how much each dealer gets from that 148,500 + the 1.8%, but I would be suprised if I felt that they were stiffed.

Inaccurate. Sorry. The tourney dealers are the same as the cash game dealers. We each are supposed to get a fair amount of tournament "downs" but it doesn't really happen. I got a lot of downs because I was much better than the other dealers there. But to say there are "special tourney dealers" isn't accurate. Higher paid maybe, but it all depends on how personable you are, what tables you're on, etc. It's not all cut and dry is what it all boils down to.