A Typical Insta-muck Gets Tricky (fr) (2/5)

[CobaltBlue 662]

Honestly dude, if you're even CONSIDERING this, you really should take longer away from the table

Okay, jackarse, let me trust my reads...time for results...I folded and BB folded. UTG called. Board AJ8TJ. UTG+1 flips AQo and UTG mucks. UTG initially claimed that he had KK, but he later admitted he had KT.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Okay, jackarse, let me trust my reads...time for results...

Can't respond with that. Results don't matter!

[mtdesmoines 3]

Okay, jackarse, let me trust my reads...time for results...I folded and BB folded. UTG called. Board AJ8TJ. UTG+1 flips AQo and UTG mucks. UTG initially claimed that he had KK, but he later admitted he had KT.

You get in the habit of making this call and you'll be playing the $2/$4 limit game at the MGM by the 30th.

[CobaltBlue 662]

You get in the habit of making this call and you'll be playing the $2/$4 limit game at the MGM by the 30th.

I am not in a habit of making the call, nor do I plan to get in that habit. This was an extremely rare situation in my mind...and I still didn't make it.

[mtdesmoines 3]

I am not in a habit of making the call, nor do I plan to get in that habit. This was an extremely rare situation in my mind...and I still didn't make it.

Your read was the determinant factor in making that play. Although you can give us some information over the internet, we need that read to make that play.

[Merby 3]

Can't respond with that. Results don't matter!

You misunderstand what he is saying here. CobaltBlue was merely saying that he read his opponents as being weak, and thought that their range was large enough that his AQ might be a marginal favourite. Seeing their hands was merely confirmation that their range was indeed very large here.Just don't let the results haunt you, CB. I still like the laydown because I am still of the mindset that AQ would be at the "bottom" of his pushing range here. Good read, but good laydown.

[DonkSlayer 1]

Fold, not close. Not only does our TAG image make UTG+1 have better holdings to make the move, we're only a big favorite against worse Q hands. Fold, Fold, Fold. Caaaaaaalallling sucks, it really really sucks.

[DonkSlayer 1]

EDIT: I wrote something brilliant and then read the OP correction.

[Visnovsky 0]

I am not in a habit of making the call, nor do I plan to get in that habit. This was an extremely rare situation in my mind...and I still didn't make it.

If you believe so strongly that this is an abnormal situation, doesn't soliciting information from people that weren't there gain you little information. Your hand and feeling is heavily read dependent and considerably atypical for a hand where you had no reads. I personally don't see the point of this post other than to point out that sometimes a very strong read can give you information that is considerably apposed to general strategy.

[Royal_Tour 0]

maybe if they were siooooooted.but no.. insta dump

[David_Nicoson 1]

I think Cobalt is getting unfair criticism here.He's not asking us to make the read ourselves. The question to us is how does the read affect our strategy, not what's our read of this player we've never met. It's much closer than our first instincts would indicate, and he's right to pause and reconsider the standard play here because of the dead money and the bizarre range of the super gambler (and further, how that range affects the other player's range). I do think Cobalt folded correctly. It's an instructive example. We always need to consider our hand's value in the context of our opponents' hands.

[CobaltBlue 662]

If you believe so strongly that this is an abnormal situation, doesn't soliciting information from people that weren't there gain you little information. Your hand and feeling is heavily read dependent and considerably atypical for a hand where you had no reads. I personally don't see the point of this post other than to point out that sometimes a very strong read can give you information that is considerably apposed to general strategy.

What David said.NL is obviously a read based game. I attempt to supply as much information as possible to support my read...though I realize that it doesn't come off exactly the same as being there. Everyone came to the conclusion that this was a fold, and I tend to agree...and in a sense, I'm somewhat happy for the "validation" for the course of action that I took...but as David said, it's sometimes instructive to pause to consider other variables that make the situation abnormal.

[mtdesmoines 3]

What David said.NL is obviously a read based game. I attempt to supply as much information as possible to support my read...though I realize that it doesn't come off exactly the same as being there. Everyone came to the conclusion that this was a fold, and I tend to agree...and in a sense, I'm somewhat happy for the "validation" for the course of action that I took...but as David said, it's sometimes instructive to pause to consider other variables that make the situation abnormal.

I was put in this spot with a suited A2 once. No kidding. I had big stack and there were two players with small stacks pushing with ATC. I seriously went into the tank when both pushed ahead of me and I was there with A2 suited. (I had 8x their stack and was getting tired of their nonsense). I was pretty sure I was ahead, but I folded. The villains flipped KQ off and KT sooted (they pushed about 75% of a buy in on these hands). I almost got sick because I was right PF. Worse, when the board ran out, I would have won with deuces, A kicker. Reads matter and with enough experience, we can rely on instinct.

[Visnovsky 0]

I think my tone of previous post was a little harsh and wanted to clarify it, plus I was a little drunk. My main point was that I thought the original post could have been presented better. I think if you gave a range of hands for the dead money the post would have been a little different, or added a little bit of pot odds after their call. I think that an important thing to remember is that even though the dead money doesn't have a premium hand, they still may hold a decent % of the pot. I think this is an interesting thinking hand, but needed to be present differently. Kind of like the you know your opponent has 2 black aces and your opponent knows that you know that he has 2 black aces after the preflop betting.

[TraptSteve 0]

I think you have to take into consideration that A-Q is among the weaker part of his shoving range here. He obviously was planning on doing this no matter who raised, regardless of their positiion. This is common, especially when a gambling/laggish sort of player has already straddled. More often then not, you will see better than AQ flipped up in this situation...Question - If you're holding 10-10 there, is it an easier or tougher call?

[Merby 3]

What David said.NL is obviously a read based game. I attempt to supply as much information as possible to support my read...though I realize that it doesn't come off exactly the same as being there. Everyone came to the conclusion that this was a fold, and I tend to agree...and in a sense, I'm somewhat happy for the "validation" for the course of action that I took...but as David said, it's sometimes instructive to pause to consider other variables that make the situation abnormal.

(Brag)I once insta-called a $1,000 allin bet into a $300 pot with A3(o) on a flop of [2 3 4](rainbow). There were two opponents: a $200 short stack and a maniac with ~$1,000. I was 100% certain that I was ahead of the maniac. The maniac rolled over A2(o).Turn: 2 (Ugh!)River: 3 (Whee!)(The short stack had 45 and also called with TP+OESD, so it was a bad beat for him)(/Brag)Reads FTW!

[CBass1724 1]

I would assume that a few of our A's and Q's could have been mucked already and even though you could be ahead of the guy's range, I would still think you need to hit to win the pot against his ATC's. I might be way off on my thinking and mindset of playing though.

[Zach6668 513]

I would assume that a few of our A's and Q's could have been mucked already and even though you could be ahead of the guy's range, I would still think you need to hit to win the pot against his ATC's. I might be way off on my thinking and mindset of playing though.

This doesn't matter.Do U C Y?