Off Season Discussion Thread

[Jadaki 0]

The list of rookies who saw court time under Larry Brown pretty much begins and ends with Danny Manning, doesn't it?

So your saying they can't learn in practice?To be fair I'd have to do some research to answer your question, and I'm feeling rather lazy this morning. Maybe later I'll look into it.

[Cappy37 0]

So your saying they can't learn in practice?To be fair I'd have to do some research to answer your question, and I'm feeling rather lazy this morning. Maybe later I'll look into it.

To be fair, I didn't do any research when I asked it either. Speaking of youth-unfriendly coaches, anyone else find it hilarious Seattle decided the best guy to mentor their two high draft-pick studs was... PJ Carlesimo?How did that owner discussion go? Suit 1 "Well, there was that choking incident in Golden State"Suit 2 "Maybe he just doesn't get along with yacht owners"

[Livaso 0]

Ok, let's not mention "freak of nature scoring ability","200 pounds soaking wet", and then toss in how overrated Oden is in the same sentence. I'm from Portland, I wanted (and still want) Durant, and you just made me throw up in my mouth a little.I long for the day when "hands down the best player in college basketball last year" weighs more heavily in decision making processes than "ya just can't teach heighth... yeeee haw!".Just to jab back, what made the Detroit travesty 10x worse was Larry Brown at head coach. LB has always been known to be kryptonite to young players, the last thing in the world Dumars should have been looking for was a "project" to put under LB's tutelage. Complete recipe for disaster.

My Oden comment was sarcasm and frustration from the way sports columnists treated him pre-draft. Like "so will he be between Russell and O'Neal in history or O'Neal and Walton?"If you check my post in the day of the NBA Lottery I said how they didn't have the guts to take Durant even though it'd make perfect sense for that team with Randolph and Aldridge. Nobody has the guts to pass on 7 footers because skilled big men are rare and championships follow Shaq around like flies to ****. I still think Durant's going to be the best player from this draft and while the roof is lower on Carmelo, I still think he's panned out to be more well rounded to this point than LeBron.As for him slacking off on the defensive end, you're accepting a project one way or another and since you're drafting the best possible player regardless of what they do, taking the prolific scorer is going to be the easier project to develop.

[Jadaki 0]

My Oden comment was sarcasm and frustration from the way sports columnists treated him pre-draft. Like "so will he be between Russell and O'Neal in history or O'Neal and Walton?"

Most overrated player in league history, discuss...

[Livaso 0]

Most overrated player in league history, discuss...

Patrick EwingI went there.Edit: I take that back. Ewing was great.

[Jadaki 0]

No seriously, it's Bill Walton.How is he one of the 50 greatest players of all time when in his entire career he scored 6,215 points? (13.3 ppg)That was two seasons for Wilt or three for Jordan. I really want to know, how the hell he is top 50 all time?

[Livaso 0]

His offense wasn't what made him great. It was his defense and rebounding and "in the way" ability that was the main point of centers before Kareem changed the face of it.And he was supposed to be the savior of the Trail Blazers but had conditioning problems and injur---- Oh no!(this is a joke)50 greatest is a push but so is Scottie Pippen in my opinion.

[Jadaki 0]

50 greatest is a push but so is Scottie Pippen in my opinion.

I'd take Pippen over Walton anyday. Pippen was one of the players basically responsible for inventing the point forward position, was always one of the best defensive players in the league and really had no weaknesses. He was the ultimate jack of all trades player. Sure when he opens his mouth and claims to be better than Jordan he is retarded, but that doesn't take away from him being a great player.

[mcpickl 0]

Ok, let's not mention "freak of nature scoring ability","200 pounds soaking wet", and then toss in how overrated Oden is in the same sentence. I'm from Portland, I wanted (and still want) Durant, and you just made me throw up in my mouth a little.I long for the day when "hands down the best player in college basketball last year" weighs more heavily in decision making processes than "ya just can't teach heighth... yeeee haw!".Just to jab back, what made the Detroit travesty 10x worse was Larry Brown at head coach. LB has always been known to be kryptonite to young players, the last thing in the world Dumars should have been looking for was a "project" to put under LB's tutelage. Complete recipe for disaster.

JJ Redick agrees with you. He wanted to go #1 too.

[Jadaki 0]

JJ Redick agrees with you. He wanted to go #1 too.

That almost worked, except JJ wasn't really the best player on his team, and I would have put Morrison ahead of him too.

[Cappy37 0]

No seriously, it's Bill Walton.How is he one of the 50 greatest players of all time when in his entire career he scored 6,215 points? (13.3 ppg)That was two seasons for Wilt or three for Jordan. I really want to know, how the hell he is top 50 all time?

Well, Walton was kinda cut from the same cloth as World B. Free, Dawkins, and other great "characters" of the era. "50 all time characters" would be more fitting. Walton came from the UCLA-Wooden lineage, he was a top notch passer, made his teammates better... And then injuries robbed us of knowing what he ever really could have become..It'd be like me coming on here and screaming "Grant Hill is a schmuck! Most overrated player ever!!" and so on.. Grant Hill had that same pedigree, class, and talent that Walton did.. And the same battle with injuries.I'll tell you a quick Walton story: My mom went to UCLA when he did, and Walton and some buddies coordinated with the entire dormatory facing out toward the public street to turn their lights on/off at the proper time for the hour before the big game against USC that night.. So at dusk, an hour before tipoff, the entire dormitory lit up like a Xmas tree in the shape of "F*CK USC".. lol

[Cappy37 0]

JJ Redick agrees with you. He wanted to go #1 too.

touche.. I will save some face by saying that even if you only have 1 nba caliber skill (in his case, long distance shooting), you can excel so greatly at it you will have at least a 10 year shelf life in the league. Look at Korver and Kapono.. That'll be Reddick in 4 years. He won't be great, but he'll be rich.

[Jadaki 0]

Well, Walton was kinda cut from the same cloth as World B. Free, Dawkins, and other great "characters" of the era. "50 all time characters" would be more fitting. Walton came from the UCLA-Wooden lineage, he was a top notch passer, made his teammates better... And then injuries robbed us of knowing what he ever really could have become..

Ok, injuries robbed him, thats life.. deal with it. It's not the 50 could have been greatest players of all time. Grant Hill won't make the list of the 100 greatest off all time, neither should Walton. Not to mention everytime the guy does commentary he proves how stupid he is.

[Cappy37 0]

My Oden comment was sarcasm and frustration from the way sports columnists treated him pre-draft. Like "so will he be between Russell and O'Neal in history or O'Neal and Walton?"If you check my post in the day of the NBA Lottery I said how they didn't have the guts to take Durant even though it'd make perfect sense for that team with Randolph and Aldridge.

Amen. Now imagine if the two choices were "Keep Randolph. Draft Durant" or "Draft Oden, completely lose 23 and 10 via a buyout of the $14 mil worth of contract in the faint hope you'll be able to use cap space to lure ANYONE to Portland next year after you win 30 games again because no one on your team can freakin' score." God, I'm bitter right now. I hope I'm wrong, I hope Oden is dominating and a year and everyone is poking fun at me saying "Foolio! You were the one who thought he was gonna be a bust!" I still feel I'm living in a Bizarro World, where sports fans and talking media heads keep telling me "The Blazers need to avoid the Bowie-Jordan mistake again. They must do this by drafting the injury prone big man, instead of the best player in college basketball". This $#!t can drive a man to drink, seriously.

Nobody has the guts to pass on 7 footers because skilled big men are rare and championships follow Shaq around like flies to ****. I still think Durant's going to be the best player from this draft and while the roof is lower on Carmelo, I still think he's panned out to be more well rounded to this point than LeBron.

This really isn't the same league anymore, though. Who are you needing a big man to shut down? Yao? Ben Wallace? We had about 7 straight years of "If the balls get in deep to Shaq, it's 2 points" and teams bent over backwards trying to shape their rosters and gameplans to battle Shaq and Shaq only. That's no longer the case. There are ways to slow down a Tim Duncan, a KG, and the like. Those guys aren't entirely interior presences, and no one suggests a guy thats 7'1 310 is going to be the best option to stop them. Really, the only player currently in the league that could be Shaq-Dominant is Amare Stoudamire. This league is evolving. It's not your father's league anymore. This metamophisis would have happened a decade ago if it wasn't for Shaq.

[Cappy37 0]

Ok, injuries robbed him, thats life.. deal with it. It's not the 50 could have been greatest players of all time. Grant Hill won't make the list of the 100 greatest off all time, neither should Walton. Not to mention everytime the guy does commentary he proves how stupid he is.

Oh, Walton isn't even close to being in the top 50, I agree with that 100%. I'm just explaining the thought process behind them including him on it. I actually love listening to his commentary. It's so over the top and silly, it's 100x better then listening to a Dr. Jack whine about fundamentals.Throw it down big man!

[Jadaki 0]

I don't think Oden is really injury prone. The guy has a ton of talent and is very athletic, I understand the Bowie complex you have being a Blazer fan, but I think you guys did just fine.

[princeof56k 0]

This really isn't the same league anymore, though. Who are you needing a big man to shut down? Yao? Ben Wallace?

But I think that's the exact reason the Blazers had to take Oden. It works in reverse for the Blazers. They will be one of the few teams with a real center. Others teams will have to figure out how to stop him (maybe not next year but in a few years from now). I really expect Oden to be one of the top 3 centers in basketball in the about 3 years (behind Yao and someon else I'm probably forgetting).

[princeof56k 0]

No seriously, it's Bill Walton.How is he one of the 50 greatest players of all time when in his entire career he scored 6,215 points? (13.3 ppg)That was two seasons for Wilt or three for Jordan. I really want to know, how the hell he is top 50 all time?

I was looking on Basketball-Reference at this linkhttp://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/waltobi01.htmlThey have a hall of probability stat towards the bottom and for Walton its 0.092. He's already in the hall of fame.I always considered him a weak choice for the top 50. He was just hurt all the time. He played in 468 games over 10 years. Basically playing half the time. So his careers numbers are really just for 5 full seasons. He didnt even tally up a lot awards (All-Star, All-NBA, ect), but he did win an MVP. He wa really good for about 2 years and thats about it.

[Livaso 0]

But I think that's the exact reason the Blazers had to take Oden. It works in reverse for the Blazers.

Yeah this is the reasoning I said on why nobody has the guts to pass on 7 footers that have an even basic understanding of footwork in the post. Its just too enticing. Most people don't remember that Jordan changed what a Shooting Guard is supposed to be. All of a sudden you expect a lot of offense to come from the two guard. They don't win championships on a regular basis. Duncan, Shaq, Russell, Kareem.... Jordan's the exception not the rule.When Oden comes along you HAVE to take him. You don't have a choice. You have to take Darko at 3. You have to take Hakeem over the skinny shooting guard out of UNC. People diss the Bowie draft pick, but not Olajuwon because everyone would have done the same thing.I'm not saying I agree with it (obviously), its just that if you can get a franchise big man, you can't turn it down. Who knows maybe 15 years from now running will make a third resurgence and we'll be saying "If it wasn't for Oden the NBA would have stopped playing defense and tall players two decades ago."I really don't see it in him but who knows!!

[Cappy37 0]

But I think that's the exact reason the Blazers had to take Oden. It works in reverse for the Blazers. They will be one of the few teams with a real center. Others teams will have to figure out how to stop him (maybe not next year but in a few years from now). I really expect Oden to be one of the top 3 centers in basketball in the about 3 years (behind Yao and someon else I'm probably forgetting).

Ummm.. yeah, Oden's going to be unstoppable in getting his 15 points a night... What I will buy into is he's going to alter a lot of shots, going to be a great weakside helper/shot blocker, and he's going to get more than his share of rebounds. And when they need buckets late, Roy is going to get double teamed and then all bets are off. The talk of Blazer town right now is the team is going to bring back Steve Blake to run the offense, which would be a good fit, and allow them to package Jarret Jack and Joel Pryzbilla together to try and bring in a quality player (scorer? Please!) We'll see..I do like your argument, after all the nba is all about matchups. If you are forcing your opponent to alter their gameplan to matchup against you, you are already one step ahead of the game.

[Cappy37 0]

When Oden comes along you HAVE to take him. You don't have a choice. You have to take Darko at 3. You have to take Hakeem over the skinny shooting guard out of UNC. People diss the Bowie draft pick, but not Olajuwon because everyone would have done the same thing.I'm not saying I agree with it (obviously), its just that if you can get a franchise big man, you can't turn it down.

What makes Houston's decision even more hilarious is they already HAD Ralph Sampson. They had a 7 footer who was a franchise-type player. And they STILL took Hakeem. Obviously it worked out fantastically well for them, for the two years Jordan decided to ease up on the gambling and prance around minor league baseball fields.Let's not forget the Blazers had Walton, so they let Moses "freakin" Malone go, and then drafted Bowie over Jordan, all in the span of 12 months. I can't talk about this any more, it makes me ill.

[Jadaki 0]

Ummm.. yeah, Oden's going to be unstoppable in getting his 15 points a night...

In 3 years he is a 22ppg/12rpg/4bpg player every night and a consistent all star. And I might be low on the points, but he seems to be an unselfish player.

[princeof56k 0]

In 3 years he is a 22ppg/12rpg/4bpg player every night and a consistent all star. And I might be low on the points, but he seems to be an unselfish player.

I pretty much agree with this. People forget Oden isnt even 20 years old. (It's easy to forget since he looks 50). But I dont know many real centers who had a good offensive game at that age. Quite honestly, for his age, I think his offensive game is above average. Yao had an extremely polished offensive game when he came into the league, but he was older at 22.Odens ppg is hard to call. Not because of his game, but because of the new defensive rules. Teams can double those guys without the ball. It's one of the big reasons Yao doesnt score more than he does. If teams want to bad enough they can take him out of the offense. The problem with the Rockets is they dont have the personel to counter it. I look for the same thing to happen to Oden (maybe not this season). So its important for the Blazers to have adequate guys on the floor to make teams pay for that strategy. Steve Blake, who's a good 3point shooter, would be a good start.

[Cappy37 0]

Lol. The Blazers have no one, outside of Brandon Roy, who can shoot the rock. Blake is your second best-bet... But remember, in Denver he had Melo, AI, and JR Reid drawing the pressure. All that considered, he only shot 32% behind the arc last year. Granted, he's 37% career, but I'm worried how he's gonna shoot in Portland, were he isn't going to get the same open looks he got in Denver. The best to hope for is he can provide Udoka and Aldridge with some good looks. I just wish Oden looked like a young Robert Parish instead of a retired Robert Parish. It creeps me out.

[mcpickl 0]

Amen. Now imagine if the two choices were "Keep Randolph. Draft Durant" or "Draft Oden, completely lose 23 and 10 via a buyout of the $14 mil worth of contract in the faint hope you'll be able to use cap space to lure ANYONE to Portland next year after you win 30 games again because no one on your team can freakin' score." God, I'm bitter right now. I hope I'm wrong, I hope Oden is dominating and a year and everyone is poking fun at me saying "Foolio! You were the one who thought he was gonna be a bust!" I still feel I'm living in a Bizarro World, where sports fans and talking media heads keep telling me "The Blazers need to avoid the Bowie-Jordan mistake again. They must do this by drafting the injury prone big man, instead of the best player in college basketball". This $#!t can drive a man to drink, seriously.This really isn't the same league anymore, though. Who are you needing a big man to shut down? Yao? Ben Wallace? We had about 7 straight years of "If the balls get in deep to Shaq, it's 2 points" and teams bent over backwards trying to shape their rosters and gameplans to battle Shaq and Shaq only. That's no longer the case. There are ways to slow down a Tim Duncan, a KG, and the like. Those guys aren't entirely interior presences, and no one suggests a guy thats 7'1 310 is going to be the best option to stop them. Really, the only player currently in the league that could be Shaq-Dominant is Amare Stoudamire. This league is evolving. It's not your father's league anymore. This metamophisis would have happened a decade ago if it wasn't for Shaq.

I don't think the league has changed that much. Since MJ left Chicago either Duncan or Shaq has appeared in all nine NBA Finals. They've won eight of those nine titles. Oden is going to dominate the defensive end immediately, and be good offensively and will improve. The guy is going to win championships. My guess is at best maybe Durant becomes Dominique Wilkins, at worst Bob McAdoo.Odens best could be Tim Duncan, at worst Alonzo Mourning.I choose the guy that at the very least is going to be a game changing force on the defensive end.