Why I Hate Poker.

[SCYUKON 0]

I thought this crap did not happen at slightly larger buyins. Donkalicious.......PokerStars Game #10878649607: Tournament #55147632, $25+$2 Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2007/07/11 - 01:38:23 (ET)Table '55147632 1' 9-max Seat #5 is the buttonSeat 1: john1802day (2135 in chips) Seat 2: SCYukon (1295 in chips) Seat 3: stiff queen (1125 in chips) Seat 5: escaladeesv4 (1665 in chips) Seat 6: Kevin_2384 (1265 in chips) Seat 7: Heff The Cow (1615 in chips) Seat 8: MJCDART11 (2265 in chips) Seat 9: Spikepkdonk (2135 in chips) Kevin_2384: posts small blind 50Heff The Cow: posts big blind 100*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to SCYukon [Jc Jh]MJCDART11: folds Spikepkdonk: folds john1802day: calls 100SCYukon: raises 1195 to 1295 and is all-instiff queen: folds escaladeesv4: calls 1295Kevin_2384: folds Heff The Cow: folds john1802day: folds *** FLOP *** [2c 8s 3s]*** TURN *** [2c 8s 3s] [Td]*** RIVER *** [2c 8s 3s Td] [As]*** SHOW DOWN ***SCYukon: shows [Jc Jh] (a pair of Jacks)escaladeesv4: shows [2s Ks] (a flush, Ace high)SCYukon said, "omg"escaladeesv4 collected 2840 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 2840 | Rake 0 Board [2c 8s 3s Td As]Seat 1: john1802day folded before FlopSeat 2: SCYukon showed [Jc Jh] and lost with a pair of JacksSeat 3: stiff queen folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 5: escaladeesv4 (button) showed [2s Ks] and won (2840) with a flush, Ace highSeat 6: Kevin_2384 (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 7: Heff The Cow (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 8: MJCDART11 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 9: Spikepkdonk folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[WaLdOrFiAn 0]

yea that does suck.... maybe a misclick that ended well for him???? but i dont understand why you went all in. There was just a limp in front of you. why not just a raise of 3xbb. I know you only had 13xbb but you still had some time before you needed to push in preflop. so he made a bad play but so did you in my opinion... his was just worst.On another note I am trying to get money on pokerstars but can not deposit. is anyone willing to trade 400 on stars for 400 on fulltilt??????

[rogerwilco 0]

lol, that is really, really bad. No clue what the guy was thinking he's doing there...

yea that does suck.... maybe a misclick that ended well for him???? but i dont understand why you went all in. There was just a limp in front of you. why not just a raise of 3xbb. I know you only had 13xbb but you still had some time before you needed to push in preflop. so he made a bad play but so did you in my opinion... his was just worst.

No way, any raise he makes other than all-in would either commit him to call a push anyway or allow someone to see a flop cheaply to draw out on him and on top of that announce his hand as a strong one. He looks weaker than JJ if he just pushes here - he wants a call and he can't get stronger hands to fold anyway. Pushing all-in is very standard here.

[muffins 0]

Maybe I just have a different style but I don't see all in with JJ being a crash hot move any time. Against 9 random hands you only win about 20%. Against that hand specifically you are still only about a 2:1 favourite. Why not just call and see the flop and then evaluate? Or just a small raise so you can pull out if reraised? I guess I'm just not convinced that it's a +equity move in the long run. Against any sensible players you will only get called by a hand that is likely to have you beat or a coin flip.

[rogerwilco 0]

Maybe I just have a different style but I don't see all in with JJ being a crash hot move any time.

Whether or not it is depends on the ratio of your chip-stack to the blinds. In this case it is the only smart move you can make with this hand. JJ is very strong, and as a short stack you will often get called with worse hands in a tournament situation.

Against 9 random hands you only win about 20%.

That is a pointless statistic, you'll never get called by 9 "random" hands, and the OP only ahs to beat 6 random hands anyway.

Against that hand specifically you are still only about a 2:1 favourite.

2:1 is excellent to get your money in the pot in any tournament any time and even moreso with a short stack. You will very very often get knocked out of tournaments with worse odds than that.

Why not just call and see the flop and then evaluate? Or just a small raise so you can pull out if reraised?

Because he can't afford it, he doesn't have enough chips to do that.

I guess I'm just not convinced that it's a +equity move in the long run. Against any sensible players you will only get called by a hand that is likely to have you beat or a coin flip.

Simply not true in most tournament-situations when the short stack pushes all in. And a coin flip wouldn't even be a bad result here at all.Please read Harrington on Hold'Em or something, or post some hands in tournament strategy here. No offense, but if you don't understand how obvious the all-in push is in this hand, then there is no chance that you are a good tournament poker player.

[muffins 0]

I have read Harringotn. I regularly cash or win sngs.

[BeaverStyle 1]

I have read Harringotn. I regularly cash or win sngs.

If you've read HOH and play the strategy he lines out or a similar one, then you should agree... pushing w/ JJ there is the only play.

[danc1984 0]

Anyone who suggests JJ should not be pushing here is a compete moron.

[muffins 0]

If you've read HOH and play the strategy he lines out or a similar one, then you should agree... pushing w/ JJ there is the only play.

Yep actually I do agree that this isn't necessarily a bad play. However I think what bothered me is the whole thing about criticising someone else for busting you when you make a move that you are going to lose a fair bit of the time, even if you win more than you lose. Suck it up and smile in the knowledge that you'd do the same thing again.

[RascoHeldall 0]

Anyone who suggests JJ should not be pushing here is a compete moron.

I am a complete moron then... Why do so many players have this obsession with pushing all-in at the first opportunity - especially when the fold equity is poor? True donkage aside, with J-J you will often be called by over cards, so it's almost always going to be a coinflip. Why not try and win the tournie through skill, rather than relying on the toss of a coin? It really annoys me TBH - i'll be down to the heads up and the opponent won't bother to try and outplay you, they just keep shoving until you are forced to call with a (semi) strong hand.I have to say, I used to be an insta-shover, but since I've started playing small-ball my results have definitely improved considerably. IMO it's so much better to try and find out where you are in a hand, and make the money when it's there to be made, rather than trying to force the issue and risk your entire stack. Still, horses for courses I suppose.

[KowboyKoop 0]

Maybe I just have a different style but I don't see all in with JJ being a crash hot move any time. Against 9 random hands you only win about 20%. Against that hand specifically you are still only about a 2:1 favourite. Why not just call and see the flop and then evaluate? Or just a small raise so you can pull out if reraised? I guess I'm just not convinced that it's a +equity move in the long run. Against any sensible players you will only get called by a hand that is likely to have you beat or a coin flip.

Uhhhh....what?????? JJ is a very good hand.....and you are acting like getting all the money in as a 2:1 favorite is a bad thing???? Lol......what, you only want to get the money in when you have your opponent drawing dead, and no other time??? Lol...okay, just keep waiting on them quads and you'll win something one day.