mid pair and backdoor flush draw

[obs 0]

Maybe betting this flop is a bad idea. Do you value bet the river or go for a c/r?Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converterPreflop: Hero is SB with 9:heart:, K:heart:. UTG calls, 2 folds, UTG calls, MP2 calls, Button calls, Hero calls.Flop: (10 SB) Q:club:, 7:heart:, 9:diamond: (5 players)Hero bets, UTG calls, MP2 folds, Button calls, Hero calls.Turn: (9 BB) J:heart: (4 players)Hero checks, BB bets, UTG folds, Button calls, Hero calls.River: (12 BB) 5:heart: (3 players)Hero bets, BB calls, Button calls.Final Pot: 15 BBEDIT: Ok my last post for the night.

[akishore 0]

the flop bet is pretty bad, IMHO (no offense of course).you might have enough outs to improve to bet for value. even if all your outs are good, you have 2 outs for the 9's, 3 outs for the kings, 1.5 outs for the backdoor flush draw, and .5 outs for the backdoor straight draw, for a total of 7 outs. this gives you about 25% equity or so, and against four opponents, that's good.HOWEVER, since the BB raised, you can safely assume he'll bet if you check and raise if you bet. since he's immediately to your left, you don't want to bet since the rest of the field will be facing two cold and many might fold, dropping your equity edge tremendously. a case can be made for checkraising.even so, i would just check-call as many of your outs might not be good (note that the 7 outs is the maximum, considering all of them are clean). i really think betting here is bad, mostly because you're making the rest of the field face two cold when you want them to be in the hand.so check-call the flop.on the turn, i think check-calling is again correct. even though you've improved both of your backdoor draws, you again can't assume all of your outs are clean. if a 9 hits, you might still lose to QQ or JJ. if a K hits, there's a four-straight on the board. a T that gives you a straight might actually lose to AK if the bettor is over-aggressive. see what i'm saying?if the bettor checks the turn, you might consider going for a checkraise. if he bets and the pot is three-way or heads-up on the river, i think you have to bet. if he bets and everyone stays in, a checkraise might be fine, though it's still risky.given the circumstances, a bet on the river was correct, IMHO.aseem

[wrto4556 0]

the flop bet is pretty bad, IMHO (no offense of course).

I like it. The pot is a monstrosity. Try to fold out as many hands as possible so that your win % gos up.

[NormanHaupt 0]

I like it, too, actually. It disguises your flush.It disguises you if you turn a nine.It disguises you if you hit a K. Hit a K, any other K figures you're betting high on a Q. vgg.Also, you got fortunate with the BB raising. I actually prefer him to raise me here.Also, you're announcing to the BB that you hit, his AK/AJ/AT/TT/JJ/99/Krablar is no good, and he disagreed. You now know him specificaly on an overpair.Normally, though, i'l lcheck/call this, get excited on the turn and see the river.I cr the river, in this situation. You know he's over pair / big AQ and is going to value bet that river. It was a safe bet to assume he would, and, if he didn't, the b utton may have been a moron and bet for him anyway.

[akishore 0]

so you bet hoping for an immediate raise in order to clean up outs?does increasing your winning chances really offset the fact that you're paying multiple bets without good odds (especially if the two cold makes people fold) with a good/marginal holding?i'm not necessarily disagreeing, but i'm not necessarily agreeing either. this is one aspect i have trouble with.i remember debating that one hand a while back... nut flush draw in a seven-way pot on the flop, aggressor is on your immediate left. do you bet and hope to get raised to clean up some ace outs or do you go for a checkraise to build the pot since you have a massive equity edge? i tended to check-raise while others said bet hoping for a raise.i think the difference between this hand and that one is that the seven-handed raised pot was huge, and SSHE advocates protecting very strong hands once the pot is huge, while i don't feel that this pot is quite huge.regardless, i can see a point in cleaning up king outs as well as disguising your hand if the 9 trips or you backdoor the flush or straight.aseem

[wrto4556 0]

i think the difference between this hand and that one is that the seven-handed raised pot was huge, and SSHE advocates protecting very strong hands once the pot is huge, while i don't feel that this pot is quite huge.

Exactly. This hand isn't as stong, either.

[NormanHaupt 0]

Okay.I'll be over there, in the corner, with my dumbass hat on.

[wrto4556 0]

Okay.I'll be over there, in the corner, with my dumbass hat on.

why?

[akishore 0]

i think the difference between this hand and that one is that the seven-handed raised pot was huge, and SSHE advocates protecting very strong hands once the pot is huge, while i don't feel that this pot is quite huge.

Exactly. This hand isn't as stong, either.

alright i'm a little confused. the fact that this pot is smaller and the hand is weaker means one of two things:1. you need to protect it more, so that advocates betting.2. you don't want to lose equity since you're drawing to a stronger hand. this would advocate checking.they seem contradictory, but i can see the validity of both points.what am i missing?aseem

[wrto4556 0]

#2 is wrong. You are gaining equity by upping your win %

[srblan 0]

I just don't see how betting will clean up any outs. What will you get to fold that takes outs away from you? A9? KQ isn't folding here... You might get ace high to fold, but since you'll probably need to improve to win, why not keep the ace highs in?

[wrto4556 0]

Q97J9, KT, A9, 65....all hands you want out.

[KDawgCometh 2]

I'd be mad tempted to go for a CR ont hat flop. YOu can assume that your overcard is kinda clean, your backdoor flush is clean, and your backdoor straight is clean along with another nine. To me I want to CR this bad boy, but that's just me. Oh yeah I love the value bet on the river as it is likely that if you go for a CR then it'll get checkd through