Structure Complaints

[bluff2much 0]

Daniel....Seems like there is an awful lot of complaining going on about the structure of some of the tournaments. I was hoping to give a different point of view. Every poker player dreams of winning a World Series Bracelet. It doesn't matter if they play 25-50 cent.... $5-$10...1k-2k... When it comes to Poker, a WSOP bracelet is where its at.I would think that majority of the players are first timers at the WSOP. Perhaps they won an online entry.... maybe there going to give it a go at it....built there bank roll.....or will go to Vegas and try and win a satellite. My Point is, I'm sure there is a large portion of players who want to enjoy the experience, and just be there competing for a chance to win a bracelet as long as the possibly can. I'm sure it is an inconvenience for a pro such as yourself..... But what about the first timer who is sitting across the table from you. Who has sat at home and dreamed of the opportunity of sitting at the same table and competing against a Daniel N.... a Phil H.... or Doyle. I Know if I had Daniel N sitting across from me....I would want it to last as long as possible.It seems to me that just because a structure of tournament doesn't fit your style of play....doesn't make it bad.

[Hockey Guy 4]

I think the complaint is the blinds start out slow then as they near the FT the blinds get so high that it's a Turbo with no room to do anything without committing your stack making it a crap shoot(just like the WPT FT's)

[Veener Schnitz 0]

[sdc12303 0]

Well it's not like the structures in previous years were so ridicilous that you were only gonna be at the table breifly. You still would have the chance to be at the table for a while. The problem with the structures is more that they start off ridicilously low and you have a bunch of people who play their heart out for two days only to go out on the money bubble because the blinds got too high. I think the majority of people would prefer to go broke on day 1 vs. playing for hours and hours for 2 days with nothing to show for it.

[suicideking 0]

yeah, I think they already cater to the dead money you describe. The complaints come in when there is no more actual poker after a certain point, only push or fold.

[psujohn 0]

I think the majority of people would prefer to go broke on day 1 vs. playing for hours and hours for 2 days with nothing to show for it.

No, the majority of pros would rather go broke early or go deep. A guy who saved all year to plunk down his 1500 on one event would rather play for 2 days and then go broke if he's not going to make the money.A good tournament structure causes people to bust out at a fairly even pace. There will be log jams created around the bubble and such but basically you want people to bust out in pace with the increase in levels. That keeps the average chipstack healthy in relation to the blinds. A structure that prevents people from busting early will inherently lead to a low average stack to blind ratio later in the tournament.

[Cappy37 0]

Actuallly, if you really think about it.. If joe-average players knew the last couple tables would allow for deep play and you'd see an M of over 20 for the final table, it might discourage a whole lot of dead money entries. WSOP Harrahs v3.0 is really only concerned with the allmighty buck, and any format that might discourage entries (esp. overall profit) is going to get swept under the rug before it gets any chance to gain momentum.We gots what we gots, deal with it. It's not changing anytime soon. Poorly run organizations that still turn great profits aren't going to change hands or formats any time soon. Please see MLB.com for more info.

[profxavier9 0]

Actuallly, if you really think about it.. If joe-average players knew the last couple tables would allow for deep play and you'd see an M of over 20 for the final table, it might discourage a whole lot of dead money entries. WSOP Harrahs v3.0 is really only concerned with the allmighty buck, and any format that might discourage entries (esp. overall profit) is going to get swept under the rug before it gets any chance to gain momentum.We gots what we gots, deal with it. It's not changing anytime soon. Poorly run organizations that still turn great profits aren't going to change hands or formats any time soon. Please see MLB.com for more info.

joe average player has no idea what M is and doesnt understand what deep stack poker is in the first place. Having a good structure doesnt discourage anyone from playing. its just bothers good players when its a crapshoot.

[Omaha Hi/Lo 0]

I've never played a WSOP Event... and when I do, I would rather play 25-50 with 2000 starting chips if it meant we'd be playing 10k-20k (with the average being 500-600k) right before the FT. Starting out deepstacked is irrelevant if you remove a ton of levels in the MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE TOURNAMENT (down inside the money/near the FT)The beef that EVERYONE has (not just the pros) is that they give you more chips to play with early on. Thanks Harrahs, that should be a good thing, right? NO, because they give everyone 12 x BB when you're down to where it matters. So its move in and pray poker for a WSOP bracelet...The WSOP is not there to appease the Average Joe, they are they to run a prestigious tournament for WHO EVER enters...Its BS...

[Cappy37 0]

joe average player has no idea what M is and doesnt understand what deep stack poker is in the first place. Having a good structure doesnt discourage anyone from playing. its just bothers good players when its a crapshoot.

Maybe you misunderstood my point. The "crapshoot" concept is what caused the poker boom. The evolution of satellites, the popularity of online poker,... even Doyle himself said in 2004 "It's a lottery, but some of us have more tickets than others". Harrah's listens to the players, has their actuaries run the numbers, and determines what squeezes the most profit. Harrah's does not cater to the players at all really, unless you count security not tossing Hellmuth out on his tuckus every time he tries to camerawhore anytime someone he knows makes a final table.

[Omaha Hi/Lo 0]

not tossing Hellmuth out on his tuckus every time he tries to camerawhore anytime someone he knows makes a final table.

Drink ProPlayer

[WhatArunAA 0]

I seriously play so much better in Turbo type structured final tables and such.. the reason is because its not very difficult to play optimal when the stacks are short and the blinds are high.. when I am deep stacked is when I ****NG SPEW EV.

[sdc12303 0]

No, the majority of pros would rather go broke early or go deep. A guy who saved all year to plunk down his 1500 on one event would rather play for 2 days and then go broke if he's not going to make the money.A good tournament structure causes people to bust out at a fairly even pace. There will be log jams created around the bubble and such but basically you want people to bust out in pace with the increase in levels. That keeps the average chipstack healthy in relation to the blinds. A structure that prevents people from busting early will inherently lead to a low average stack to blind ratio later in the tournament.

No you are totally wrong. I was actually there and played in 2 events and was one of those regular guys who plunked down my hard earned cash. I also talked to tons of "regular" guys who felt the same way. So while I have my information from the source, Where did you get yours from to so confidently insist that the majority of people would rather go deep and make no money? my guess is your arse?

[psujohn 0]

Yes I pull the info out of my ass. But I think you're mis-understanding me. If Joe average gonna play 1 big tourney a year is not going to cash either way, he'd rather play a long time and not cash than play a short time and not cash. If the pro isn't going to cash he'd rather play a short time so he can move onto the cash game or other money making opportunities.Perhaps you personally disagree but I think if you poll enough of that type player you'll see that they're there to:- have good time- maybe play with some pros- maybe take a pot off a pro- have a slim chance of winning bigAll that equates to they'd rather play longer than shorter if they're going to have the same result.

[Mrjones_76 0]

Yes I pull the info out of my ass. But I think you're mis-understanding me. If Joe average gonna play 1 big tourney a year is not going to cash either way, he'd rather play a long time and not cash than play a short time and not cash. If the pro isn't going to cash he'd rather play a short time so he can move onto the cash game or other money making opportunities.Perhaps you personally disagree but I think if you poll enough of that type player you'll see that they're there to:- have good time- maybe play with some pros- maybe take a pot off a pro- have a slim chance of winning bigAll that equates to they'd rather play longer than shorter if they're going to have the same result.

Agreed

[sdc12303 0]

Yes I pull the info out of my ***

I seriously stopped reading after that. Thanks for proving my point!