Kqs, Bubble, Raise In Front

[jmbreslin 0]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Hero (t2030)UTG (t2330)Button (t5510)SB (t3630)Preflop: Hero is BB with K, Q. UTG raises to t450, 2 folds, Hero ???Not much info on villain, other than that he had earlier push-reraised with AA. The fact that I had few notes on him this late is usually a sign that he's a pretty kosher player. Do you throw this away, call to see the flop, or push-reraise?

[litlebullet 0]

fold.

[usernametaken 0]

fold.

this reminds me of the Full Tilt Commercial where the noob is asking Erick Lindgren about a hand and Mike "the mouth" walks up and rips the guys cards up.

[RISEorFall 0]

this reminds me of the Full Tilt Commercial where the noob is asking Erick Lindgren about a hand and Mike "the mouth" walks up and rips the guys cards up.

our cards are not nearly that badthis would really depend on how the table has been playing and responding to raises. KQs 4 handed is pretty big.

[pokerinc 0]

fold>push>callYour position kind of sucks because your button is the chipleaders BB making stealing a little more dangerous. So depending on how you feel folks are playing you can push here, but I think you can find a better spot against the avg. crowd of micro'ers.

[ghostlove 0]

what was the size of your stack? it think that would depend, along with the size of his stack. if u have the chips or (around 4500 (10x 3x the BB)) i would call and see a flop. theres no need t push in here cuz if he calls even with a weak ace, ur a 60-40 dog. id call and see a flop DEPENDING on stack sizes.edit- lol im an idiot, didnt even see the stack sizes in the beggingin. my bad.id still call tho cuz ittd be 300 in a pot of 450+75+150=675

[mjd 0]

Assuming top three get paid: fold >>> all-in > callYou both have too few chips to do anything fancy at all.

[rogerwilco 0]

In my opinion this is close. UTG is the one player, Hero would least like to give any chips in this situation and the one who he'd like to see losing chips the most. If you push preflop, his calling range should be very small here, much smaller than his raising range - if he is a halfway decent player - so you should often take the pot down without a showdown. And if you are called you are probably in ok shape as well.I think a push is very tempting here.edited to add: I would be very interested in what an ICM calculator has to say about this situation - could maybe someone who owns SNGPT or similar look at that?

[jmbreslin 0]

What worries me about the hand is that if he is a kosher player and raising from UTG on the bubble, there is a darn good chance I'm up against mid-high PP or something like AJs+. So against this range I'm either a slight dog to an underpair or a huge dog to AA or a hand that has me dominated. However, there is a possibility that he could be raising with something I have dominated, like KJs or QJs. I don't think I would put his range lower than this based on what I had seen from him. It would be interesting to see what ICM says about this.One thing there seems to be agreement on, though, is that calling to see the flop would be a bad idea...right?

[Yahkin 0]

A 3x raise by him in this situation is pretty strong. He's put 1/4 of his stack on the line on the bubble from UTG. Unless the table has been super tight, I can't see him making this play with a marginal hand...meaning you have pretty close to 0 FE with a push.I'm going with a fold here and let's see if we can get some first in vig in the next couple hands.

[RISEorFall 0]

One thing there seems to be agreement on, though, is that calling to see the flop would be a bad idea...right?

yeah i think calling 1/4 of your chips oop is a pretty bad idea

[cdipierr 0]

Fold, not even a decision. It's AQ/AK too many times to get involved here.One thing I will say though is that people give the UTG position too much respect when it's 4 handed. Realize that 4 handed, UTG is also the CO, so I feel an UTG raise 4-handed is not the same as an UTG-raise 9'/10 handed.That said, it's still a fold.

[Yahkin 0]

One thing I will say though is that people give the UTG position too much respect when it's 4 handed. Realize that 4 handed, UTG is also the CO, so I feel an UTG raise 4-handed is not the same as an UTG-raise 9'/10 handed.

Agreed, but the fact that's he's essentially tied for the bubble spot and he is raising with the top two stacks yet to act speaks volumes.

[The Nuts 0]

allllllllllllll-in!

[Kid DynOmite 0]

easy fold. in your position, you should only be opening pots (raise 400) and re pushing if you think you can get the guy to fold or you have a monster hand. By monster I am talking bigger than 10 inches with a diameter of bigger than 3 inches.

[jmbreslin 0]

The consensus seems to be for folding, and that is exactly what I did. BB then reraised all in and took the pot, which means I might have given UTG too much credit for his hand. Nevertheless, looks like it was still the right move under the circumstances.*Edit: wrong outcome, see below.

[Yahkin 0]

I hope you put a note on UTG. Pretty horrible on his part to put that many chips in only to fold to the reraise.

[jmbreslin 0]

Oops - must have been looking at the wrong hand. Here is what actually happened:PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Hero (t2030)UTG (t2330)Button (t5510)SB (t3630)Preflop: Hero is BB with K, Q. UTG raises to t450, 2 folds, Hero calls t300.Flop: (t975) J, 6, 6(2 players)Hero checks, UTG bets t450, Hero folds.Final Pot: t1425So I ended up making the worst play of the 3 options. Fantastic way to spew chips. Dammit!

[The Nuts 0]

Awful decision to call off 25% of your stack only to fold on the flop. If you play this hand, you have to get it all-in. If you call preflop, shoving the flop is mandatory here. You don't call off that much to check/fold a blank flop. It's also very likely that villain is making a c-bet here with ace high. It's a paired board after all and it's unlikely that you hit it.With being on the bubble, you should be playing more hands and stealing more often. Get it all-in. You have KQs. You can't hang around waiting for AA with 4 players remaining and high blinds.

[rogerwilco 0]

^^^There is no way villain ever folds his hand on the flop I think. If Hero has little fold equity preflop he definately has none on flop. One of the reasons I really don't like calling preflop here, is that realistically you'll only feel halfway comfortable with your hand on a Q- or K-high flop and you can't afford hoping for that - with a pocker pair that might be a more useful play. Hero's position on the table after folding on the flop is terrible, he's close to having to push almost any two cards now. As played I'd still prefer that to pushing on this flop though.

[jmbreslin 0]

With being on the bubble, you should be playing more hands and stealing more often. Get it all-in. You have KQs. You can't hang around waiting for AA with 4 players remaining and high blinds.

Is this really the best bubble strategy for me in this situation? Shouldn't I be more cautious and waiting for opportunities to get in with strong hands?

[The Nuts 0]

Is this really the best bubble strategy for me in this situation? Shouldn't I be more cautious and waiting for opportunities to get in with strong hands?

No. You should be moving in with a lot of hands, capitalizing on the bubble effect that tends to keep opponents from making decisions for a lot of their chips. You're short stacked and you can't afford to let the blinds and ante to eat away at your stack.Plus, how is KQs not a strong hand shorthanded? If you're playing good poker, you should be busting more often on the bubble more than anywhere else. It shows that you're not willing to just slip into the money and then you're playing to accumulate chips for a win.

[rogerwilco 0]

Plus, how is KQs not a strong hand shorthanded? If you're playing good poker, you should be busting more often on the bubble more than anywhere else. It shows that you're not willing to just slip into the money and then you're playing to accumulate chips for a win.

You are mistaken there. Yes, KQs is a strong hand 4-handed, but you have to understand that bubble strategy in single table tournaments is very different to MTTs. Busting on the bubble is the worst case scenario in these s&gs, because you have wasted all that time for nothing. Merely getting into the money IS a goal in STTs, whereas in MTTs the bubble usually is insignificant, and that thought should influence your strategy. Taking unnecessary risks on the bubble is -ev in STTs, and that is the reason that makes this hand borderline imo - If this were a MTT-bubble, this would be an insta-push I think, but in a STT making it into the money is more important than accumulating chips on the bubble. Having a lot of bubble-finishes in STTs is definately a leak! When it's 3-handed you can gamble.

[jmbreslin 0]

No. You should be moving in with a lot of hands, capitalizing on the bubble effect that tends to keep opponents from making decisions for a lot of their chips.

This doesn't really apply at $1.20 because very few players at that level have any concept of bubble strategy. If players play about the same on the bubble as they do at other times, getting aggressive to take advantage of "the bubble effect" becomes neutralized.

[The Nuts 0]

Merely getting into the money IS a goal in STTs, whereas in MTTs the bubble usually is insignificant, and that thought should influence your strategy. Taking unnecessary risks on the bubble is -ev in STTs

It's that mentality that should allow you to steal more often and make more plays. If people are only striving to make the money and play tight around the bubble, then you should take advantage of that by being more aggressive.That idea isn't too applicable to this hand since somebody has opened up the pot. However, not taking advantage of weak play on the button is -EV. If people are too willing to buckle down on the bubble, then they're leaving dead money out there for me to take.