poker confidence and disbelief in variance.

[PrtyPSux 0]

I dont wanna sound like too much of a loser posting two negative threads, so I combined the two in this one. My first question is about confidence and its effect on a persons individual game. ( To anyone who has read my other posts you will know I have had a bad month brought by bad beats, horrible tilts, and 36 hr sessions, Ive thrown half my BR down the drain. I have also noticed that this past month there have been more than the usual amount of posts about downswings, and variance so maybe others on this forum are experiencing the same). After this month it seems like I cant get my game back (in NL that is), I cant play like I used to, yes I am playing looser and more aggressive but that is besides the fact that lately it seems that I cannot win a pot unless I bluff at it, or have the nuts. If someone raises me all in I just find it very hard to call, partly because I am scared, but mostly it is because I just think of the worst case senario,..every time.. Say I raise on the button with AA and the flop comes J,9, 7 and my only opponent raises, now I reraise, and he pushes.. I will start to think of a set, or a str8 or two pair, and end up folding, or if I'm first to act i raise and get reraised I might just call and check the turn, which puts me on the spot to call an all in most of the time. I feel this is partly because of the fact that when I have called I have to face the set or the str8, and when I have folded they show a bluff. I have lost so much confidence that I am no longer seeing the logic in plays, instead I am playing the cards only. Ive been making the wrong moves at the wrong times, creating implied odds that aren't really that possible in order to justify chasing my flush draws, and trying to compensate for my weak laydowns by later making big bluffs. I just want to know if anyone has gone through this lack of confidence? and if so how did you bounce back? is this just a phase I'm going through, that most other players go through? ,, It just seems like the more I read, the more i play, and the more I learn, the harder it is for me to play well.. even my tourney's in nl have been a disaster..My second question isnt what it sounds like in the title, I do believe in Variance. I just dont think that is what my losing streak in Limit has been due to. I started playing .50/1 basically with what I knew about NL and what I learned in TOP. I then tightened my game up even more, to the point of only playing 15 maybe 20 hands,,I quickly moved up, to 1/2 and now that I am playing more cards and seeing more flops (SSHE recommendations), I really havent had that many winning sessions. my swings are huuge... I just wanna know what the average limit player's swings are like, do you have a 12BB/100 session one day and then a -20bb/100 the next, does an average session consist of you going up big and then losing all the profit and then some? for me in an average session of 500 hands I might be up 60BB or so and by the end of it be down 10 or 15bb.. this isnt normal is it ?? I am down about .8 bb/100 in about 10k hands... could there be such a bad leak in my game to where that happens all the time? thx

[Shocktastik 0]

You can't do anything about the bad beats. If you get your money in the pot with the best hand and get sucked out on, you did what you could. That said, you CAN do something about going on tilt and 36 hour sessions. Take a break! You can stop, go get some food, take a nap, get some exercise or something. If what you're doing now isn't working you gotta change something. If it's really gotten bad enough maybe you should take a break from poker all together for a week or so. Play some XBOX or something.Shock

[PrtyPSux 0]

You can't do anything about the bad beats.  If you get your money in the pot with the best hand and get sucked out on, you did what you could.  That said, you CAN do something about going on tilt and 36 hour sessions.  Take a break!  You can stop, go get some food, take a nap, get some exercise or something.  If what you're doing now isn't working you gotta change something.  If it's really gotten bad enough maybe you should take a break from poker all together for a week or so.  Play some XBOX or something.Shock

I understand that a tilt marathon was a bad move, I have stopped for a week already and my game just isnt there anymore. I really cant see what I can do to improve it again,

[PhishForChips 0]

Move down a few levels in blinds to build your confidence back up again. This seems to work for me. And even if my AA or KK get broke by 2 pair or a set I will continue to play them aggressively and trap becasue I know that it will win me more $$ than it loses in the long run. This is my philosophy on bad beats and losing confidence: I will continue to play the way that has made me successful in the long run. Even if I have short run losing sessions, I always bounce back and it evens out the tough days. Good luck!

[Booface 0]

I went through a month where my bankroll went down and only down. I took a long break (many months) and everything was fixed. Take a week or two off.

[Shocktastik 0]

Try playing a different game for a little while, even just in freerolls. Maybe a bit of stud or omaha hi/lo will get you seeing straight again, it helps me sometimes...Shock

[Scott31 0]

A break is a good recommendation, however, it's not a good idea for someone with ADD (as Prty has said in other threads). Instead, try changing games to Omaha, Omaha 8/b, Pineapple, 7 stud et al. After a day or so of that, you're ready to get back into NLHE and by playing Omaha, you're more willing to push and gamble like you should. It worked for me during my terrible downswing a few months ago. BTW, if you follow the exact recommendations of SSHE, you will have some large variance swings there. Miller and Sklansky advocate pushing some really, really small edges that may not hit at all during several hands (in those situations) and this can result in some bigger swings. This is just a small reason for some fluctuations, but I thought I should point it out.

[Mr. Kaufman 0]

I have to agree with shockAfter having just a horrible two weeks at limit i found taking a break withsome nl cash games, relaxing and profitable.I might mix in some 7 stud 8 or better sooni think that working aon all of your games might help you think of one specific game more rationally

[powerpoker 0]

i also agree with takin a break...i have taken a long break about 2 wks after i lost a ton of my BR in a about a 10 day period...with that all said i decided to jump back on today and turned it around and won some money...not much but it still a step in the right direction...if you take a break and try not to think about poker to much and get back on in a little bit you will be better off...dont think of what has happend in the past...tough it out you will be fine...just a thought

[Swift_Psycho 1]

You can't do anything about the bad beats.  If you get your money in the pot with the best hand and get sucked out on, you did what you could.  That said, you CAN do something about going on tilt and 36 hour sessions.  Take a break!  You can stop, go get some food, take a nap, get some exercise or something.  If what you're doing now isn't working you gotta change something.  If it's really gotten bad enough maybe you should take a break from poker all together for a week or so.  Play some XBOX or something.Shock

I understand that a tilt marathon was a bad move, I have stopped for a week already and my game just isnt there anymore. I really cant see what I can do to improve it again,

I know it's hard, but maybe a longer break is what you need. You are putting too much pressure on yourself, consequently making the problem worse. When you come back to the game, I actually suggest starting at, not one level, but two levels lower than what you normally play. The money will be quite small compared to what you are used to working with and you will be more focused on just making the right play. Give it a shot, it might work. After you start to win at that level, then move up one more. After that, you can then return to your regularly scheduled level. Take it slow, and be in no rush to return to your regular level. Poker is a game. Games are about having fun. The fun in this game is in outwitting others and beating them out of their scoring units (chips). Enjoy yourself. Good luck. I wish you the best.

[Dlink 0]

Play shorthanded. More hands, more decisions more mistakes more rewards for skilled and observant players. Also if you play short handed well and pay attention very rarely do the cards in your hand come into play.More variance per session but if you are a skilled player less variance through multiple sessions than full ring games. Just a thought, good luck.

[PrtyPSux 0]

Play shorthanded.  More hands, more decisions more mistakes more rewards for skilled and observant players.  Also if you play short handed well and pay attention very rarely do the cards in your hand come into play.More variance per session but if you are a skilled player less variance through multiple sessions than full ring games.  Just a thought, good luck.

I play shorhanded too.. my agressive style doesnt suit me in low limit ring games, still though, I have been making mistakes that I wouldnt have made 3 months ago. I guess a break with the ocassional $5 mtt, would help. Im planing on going to a casino in 2 weeks, maybe some live action will help too.

[pokernoobie 0]

i think what you are going through happens to almost all poker players. i went through it a few months ago. i quit for about 1-2 months and came back yes i feel great now

[Mr Monkey 0]

Play shorthanded.  More hands, more decisions more mistakes more rewards for skilled and observant players.  Also if you play short handed well and pay attention very rarely do the cards in your hand come into play.More variance per session but if you are a skilled player less variance through multiple sessions than full ring games.  Just a thought, good luck.

i think playing in short handed games at this point is crazy. if u arent playing well just take a week or 2 off. theirs no point in pissing away more money. why at this point with his confidence shot would he want to be in a game where the swings are huge. why would he want to play in a game where more decisions are being made when he isnt making the correct decisions

[Dlink 0]

I think I made a mistake, I addressed the issue of variance but not of your current game. If you believe your game is for whatever reason -- bad cards, bad day, bad mood whatever STOP. Take a week away. Stop reading the boards, the books, everything -- go away and clear your head. I went through a phase like that and instead of stopping I kept telling myself "focus concetrate take it easy, you can do this." I couldn't but once I stepped away and came back everything seemed more natural.Just like you need a break from work, or everyone needs a change of scenery, sometimes you just need to put down the chips. Good Luck to you and hope all goes well at the Casino.

Play shorthanded.  More hands, more decisions more mistakes more rewards for skilled and observant players.  Also if you play short handed well and pay attention very rarely do the cards in your hand come into play.More variance per session but if you are a skilled player less variance through multiple sessions than full ring games.  Just a thought, good luck.

I play shorhanded too.. my agressive style doesnt suit me in low limit ring games, still though, I have been making mistakes that I wouldnt have made 3 months ago. I guess a break with the ocassional $5 mtt, would help. Im planing on going to a casino in 2 weeks, maybe some live action will help too.

[rog 0]

I have found that it takes a lot more discipline and judgement to play using the SSHE system than some other less aggressive systems. I played using Lee Jones for a while before I bought SSHE, and that book can be summed up as "play tight pre-flop, fold to aggression after the flop without the nuts". While I dont believe that this maximizes profits, it is profitable at low-limits, but more importantly, it is hard to lose money in a low-limit game playing this style.When I'm on a down-swing and I'm not sure if it's due to tilt/leaks, I often revert to a Lee Jones style for a little while...check/fold middle pairs, fold to re-raises with top pair on a coordinated board etc. Basically "look for reasons to fold". Once I stem the bleeding, and make sure my mind is in the right place, I bring the offence back to my game slowly until I feel like I'm playing my "A" game again. Now, PRTY: do you have pokertracker? If you dont, good luck finding the leaks. You need pokertracker. It is worth it's weight in gold. Get it. Get it now. Use it to ferret out your big losing hands from your big losing sessions. Post them here, and the kind and helpfull community will tear you a new ...umm... provide some insightful feedback. Yeah...that's it!

[Guest]

Bad streaks happen, its how you come out at the other end that counts. I went on a losing streak for about 3weeks, losing almosts 2/3 of my BR. Either I made bad choices, picked the wrong time to bluff or would get outdrawn. Took a week off and did nothing that was poker related.I came back with a fresh mind and went back to the basics and didn't try antything to fancy. I was able to recoup my 3 weeks of losses in one weekend session. Another thing I've done when I've gone on bad streaks, is sit down at a 0.01/0.02 cent table (if where u play has them) and play every hand regardless of what two cards you have. Just let that 2$ buyin ride for as long as you can and trust me at the end you'll feel a whole lot better. Helps avoid the tilt syndrome.

After this month it seems like I cant get my game back (in NL that is), I cant play like I used to, yes I am playing looser and more aggressive

This is the one thing that stood out for me in your post. Maybe by trying a different style of play that you are either not ready for or are not adjusting to properly is your biggest problem. Try dropping down a level and see how your loose/aggressive style plays out and you can figure out how to fine tune it so you'll mabye to bring it up with you to your current level of playing.

[GhostfaceKillah 0]

Im in the middle of a bad luck streak too buddy........Im just trying to tighten up and get my money in while i have the best hand.......Rake a couple big pots and ur confidence will improve

[Smasharoo 0]

this isnt normal is it ??No, the swings are ussually much worse.

[711Buddha 0]

You said - "my agressive style doesnt suit me in low limit ring games"While game selection is crucially important, you also have to be able to adjust to the game. If your style won't let you do that, you may want to consider that its a losing style and make a change.

[faisal 0]

Umm, in NL or limit, instead of playing one game at a time, multi-table it. If you play a tight game, you see twice or three times as many hands, which essentially lets you see 3 times as many good hands, then you normally would. This allows you to fold many crappy hands, that id guess, you normally get involved in, and lose alot of your money. Playing two-three tables evens keeps the excitement factor up, so you dont think of playing 2-7os, just because the flop last time was 772.

[bourbenz 0]

your problem isn't variance its playing badly, I have had a bad month too and I started playing looser and passive, and was still losing you need to step away, and not come back till you realize that the money that you lost is gone and it aint coming back overnight. If you want it back you have to earn it back all over again, the way you made it the first time.For me getting over the first hurdle of realizing my money was gone and I didn't have that bankroll anymore was a slap, but once I convinced my self of the fact that My new(lower bankroll) was what it was, I got back to business. And consequently To get my mind off poker I pulled out a play station game and beat the hell out it for a few days, it does help.

[21gambit 0]

I usually go through rotation, if Im having a bad session in whatever Im currently playing, I switch to another game. Im constantly rotating between NL cash games, Limit cash games and No Limit SnGs. MTTs are a constant though. SnGs are always my fall back game, if Im running badly in cash games I enjoy SnGs because I can work on my game play and also restrict the possible loss amount. I generally do well at SnGs also, which is another reason why I switch back to them, its easy for me to get my roll off of life support in SnGs.Good luckOh, btw, I suggest re reading whatever books youve read and re-evaluating your style.

[r18 0]

I've been on an awful run since Saturday night. Just bleeding away my bankroll wherever I played. What finally helped me last night was switching down to a lower level. Suddenly the blinds didn't mean much. I could raise or call without worry. It took away the fear. And of course now that the $ wasn't as important, the cards seemed to start coming. Or at least I was able to relax and get back to playing good poker rather than waiting for the worst.

[justblaze 0]

I've been on an awful run since Saturday night.

and now its wednesday. come back when you're on a losing streak.