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Dude, what's with the ******* act? I appreciate all advice, I really do. I'm not sure I understand where your condescending attitude is coming from, though.

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To expand on some fundamentally flawed thinking...

ok, since I'm sort of new around here, i'll give you guys a free one. After that, I charge $100 an hour for lessons.You have to remember to ask yourselves; wwdd?Would Daniel limp in with T 9 and then call a $50 raise to see a flop against a guy who hasn't played a hand in an hour for a pot with $20 in it? Maybe, but both players would have to be deep-stacked (at least 1.5k to 2k in a 5/10NL game) and if you hit your hand, you need to be sure you're getting paid off by the donk with a big PP.
Calling $50 with 1k stacks gives you 20-1 implied odds... those are pretty solid.
Naismith, you got us completely lost in this hand. Look at the way SB played the last hour (I'm just assuming 2 orbits=20 hands=about 1 hour). Not 1 single hand and all of a sudden comes out of the SB with that big a raise. He has JJ or better about 75% of the time and AK the other 25%. He's not on a play. That's for sure. So you're basically playing this hand to hit 2 pair, a straight or flush and if all you get is top pair, then muck the flop. You have 5 outs at this point 75% of the time (probably less because if 7 people folded preflop in front of you, it's pretty likely there was a 49os or a T3os in there somewhere) and you're getting 3 to 1 to call the $50 on the flop. I just don't like the limp-flat call $50 at all to see the flop. You're just throwing away money there. So call the flop. You just put $100 in there and you have no idea what villain has going to the turn. If you're gonna play 9T, take control of the hand from the get-go.
I disagree with your ranges completely, but that's all reads based.The bolded part is incredibly wrong. Do U C Y?
So let's restart the hand.Daniel would open with a raise from CO, probably around $30-35. Now we are in a very defined position because what the SB does from here will tell us a lot. He hasn't played in an hour. If he re-raises pf to say $90, we can probably be sure he's got at least a PP over TT. So do we call or fold? Well, at least we know what he has now (or have a good idea). If we're deep-stacked, then yes. By all means call. Implied odds are good if you flop something good and 9T is a good disguised hand which will probably get paid if you hit. If you're sitting under say... $700, then fold. You play suited connectors for the implied odds solely unless you're DN and know what everyone holds every hand. OK, so villain raises to $90, we call $60 more with the 9T clubs. We're looking for at least 2 pair, oe str8 draw or 4-flush on this flop. If we don't get it, fold. Simple as that.
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I was right about it being comical :)I really can't compete with this at this moment. Maybe later tonight, maybe in the morning. There are just so many flaws in his post that I'm not sure where to start.I'm just gonna blanket it by echoing Naismith when he said (100% accurately I might add) that there is no set way to play suited connectors.Also, 2 orbits is like 20 minutes or half an hour. It's not like this is some super rock sitting there waiting for a hand. For all we know, he was just getting a feel for the table and then he found pocket 8s in the BB and tried to take it down preflop.

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I really can't compete with this at this moment. Maybe later tonight, maybe in the morning.
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I'm just gonna blanket it by echoing Naismith when he said (100% accurately I might add) that there is no set way to play suited connectors.
Their is no set way to play AA. But some ways are obviously better then others.Open limping from the CO with basically any hand is bad. Why is it bad? Because a lot of the value of playing a hand from the CO is that you will often take down the blinds and when you dont you get to play the hand in position vs a somewhat defined hand (assuming a real big hand will 3-bet you pre.) In this spot since 109s was limped we are unsure of whether the BB has a big hand (AA-1010 AK) 100% of the time or if he possibly tried to take it down pre with something more marginal like A5s. While the other obvious problem of limping is that we are allowing junk hands like Q5o or J8 to see a flop from the blinds.Once we've limped its most likely a fold pre. Sure we have some implied odds. But at the same time its way to easy to put yourself in tough spots when the flop comes J92 or 1055 and we really have no idea where our hand stands.
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20 hands=20 minutes? So 1 hand a minute? ok.... I 've never seen a game that quick live. wow, is Superman dealing your games or what?I only wrote wwdd because he's gotta be arguably the best in the world at playing suited connectors and if you watch HSP on youtube enough you can see that Daniel plays them strong preflop to disguise his hand. I'm sorry, but a winning players game is all about deception and if you play suited connectors the way Naismith did, you're only going to get yourself in trouble. He got us so lost in that hand, it's ridiculous and it's mostly because he let SB villain take control of the hand preflop. The guy in the SB just let his BB go uncontested the hand before so we know he has something pretty good.About open raising from CO with 9T soooooted: Are you telling me it's better to limp in then flat call a raise from the SB when he hasn't played a hand since you sat down? That is so weak man. The way I played the hand, I had $90 in preflop and pretty much know what the SB has. I'm either going to lose a small pot or win a huge one. Play it like Naismith and you're in for $50 in preflop, have no idea where you are, put in $50 on the flop.... Still don't know where we are, then fold to a bet on the turn. Why even play the hand in the first place then?

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One other thing. Raising PF lets you take control of the hand with position. I would rather have control of the hand and position than just position alone and be lost. Also, what if the SB really isn't that strong? You raise PF from CO and if he isn't that strong, SB just calls the $35-40 PF. It takes his control away unless he wakes up with JJ or better so if he doesn't re-raise and the flop comes T high, that TP no kicker starts looking pretty good. The condescending tone is because I should have TPMM a long time ago but get 2 outered on the river every time I make a final table for a WSOP satellite.

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The condescending tone is because I should have TPMM a long time ago but get 2 outered on the river every time I make a final table for a WSOP satellite.
Well, Doyle Brunson, we appreciate you taking your time away from your freerolls. Why don't you just take the 25k you were given and buy straight into the main event?http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...c=89004&hl=
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Well, Doyle Brunson, we appreciate you taking your time away from your freerolls. Why don't you just take the 25k you were given and buy straight into the main event?http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...c=89004&hl=
lol, that was actually pretty funny. You don't know how bad I run.
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Hey actually, I just figured out what the real underlying problem is with your entire game by listening to the way you guys suggest to play suited connectors. But this one will cost you. You're rich. Put a $100 in my pokerstars account and I'll tell you exactly what you need to do. When I make it to $10,000, I'll give you $1,000 back. How about that?

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Hey actually, I just figured out what the real underlying problem is with your entire game by listening to the way you guys suggest to play suited connectors. But this one will cost you. You're rich. Put a $100 in my pokerstars account and I'll tell you exactly what you need to do. When I make it to $10,000, I'll give you $1,000 back. How about that?
Name on Stars?
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Hey actually, I just figured out what the real underlying problem is with your entire game by listening to the way you guys suggest to play suited connectors. But this one will cost you. You're rich. Put a $100 in my pokerstars account and I'll tell you exactly what you need to do. When I make it to $10,000, I'll give you $1,000 back. How about that?
please go away. seriously.
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I go away for a couple weeks and we have random joke accounts posting crazy stuff. I think this is a flat call on flop a ton of the time. Sadly I agree with NonZero that I'm usually raising this PF folded to me in CO.

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20 hands=20 minutes? So 1 hand a minute? ok.... I 've never seen a game that quick live. wow, is Superman dealing your games or what?I only wrote wwdd because he's gotta be arguably the best in the world at playing suited connectors and if you watch HSP on youtube enough you can see that Daniel plays them strong preflop to disguise his hand. I'm sorry, but a winning players game is all about deception and if you play suited connectors the way Naismith did, you're only going to get yourself in trouble. He got us so lost in that hand, it's ridiculous and it's mostly because he let SB villain take control of the hand preflop. The guy in the SB just let his BB go uncontested the hand before so we know he has something pretty good.About open raising from CO with 9T soooooted: Are you telling me it's better to limp in then flat call a raise from the SB when he hasn't played a hand since you sat down? That is so weak man. The way I played the hand, I had $90 in preflop and pretty much know what the SB has. I'm either going to lose a small pot or win a huge one. Play it like Naismith and you're in for $50 in preflop, have no idea where you are, put in $50 on the flop.... Still don't know where we are, then fold to a bet on the turn. Why even play the hand in the first place then?
Let's see. Here in Vegas, they have automatic shufflers. At 5/10 NL, players don't f-ck around and act quickly on their hands. Also, we were 7 or 8 handed, so that means that it was about 15 or 16 hands that he dind't play. That'll usually take 20 minutes to half an hour.Deception is a 2-edged sword. If we are limping with good hands as well as speculative ones and garbage here then it is just as deceptive as putting in a raise with any one of those hands. Do you see why?You keep saying that he got us "lost" in this hand. You also keep saying that it'd be better to put in $90 preflop than it would be to put in $50 preflop becuase then you'd have been reraised and you'd "know where you're at" which is a load of crap becuase the SB could be raising with trash becuase he thinks you're coming in light from the CO. All of this stuff that you're mentioning works both ways and if you're not smart enough to realize that, you really shouldn't be posting here.The play of limping in here is INCREDIBLY standard. Neither of us are super deep in chips and we don't need to start inflating a pot with a suited connector. Naismith is smarter than the average bear and will effectively use his position in the hand to make better decisions than his opponent will. That's why we play speculative hands with position.It seems pretty obvious to me (and other chime in here if you like) that you've seen one too many poker shows on TV and think that DN is the be-all and end-all of crafty poker players. Wake up. He's a great player. He has his style. There are an infinite number of styles to adopt and an equally large number of ways to play any given hand. You saying that he went totally wrong here is just ingorant.You'd rather he come in raising? Ok, he opens for $40 or $50 (which is a standard raise in the game) and the SB now reraises to $150 or $180. Now we have to fold and we just invested $50 and didn't get to see a flop. What if we would've flopped a straight? We have taken ourself out of the pot with our preflop action. Good players want to see flops. Good players don't need (or don't want) the betting iniative in every single hand that they are in because they're better than their opponents and can win hands from many different angles.A limp-call here is not the only line to take in the hand, but it is a perfectly acceptable one. Maybe you should try and figure out why.Oh, wait, you're already better than all of us. That's why you're asking for $100 for lessons (you teach Hellmuth's top 10 hands?) about God knows what and asking people to trasfer you $100 and falling for retarded scammer crap on FT? Seriosuly. If you're so good, go earn your own money. On the other hand, if you're as good as everyone else here probably thinks that you are (skill level: narcoleptic chimp), then try and post something constructive and learn something. In order to be condescending about poker to someone, you should probably have a higher skill level than they do. Since that is not the case here, go back to your freerolls.(Took me a few days, but I got back to it :club: )
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Let's see. Here in Vegas, they have automatic shufflers. At 5/10 NL, players don't f-ck around and act quickly on their hands. Also, we were 7 or 8 handed, so that means that it was about 15 or 16 hands that he dind't play. That'll usually take 20 minutes to half an hour.Anything over 30 hands per hr live is really good. At 5/10 from my experience action is still relatively slowDeception is a 2-edged sword. If we are limping with good hands as well as speculative ones and garbage here then it is just as deceptive as putting in a raise with any one of those hands. Do you see why?Id assume a functional player would realize that open limping AA, AK or some other premium hand from the CO would be a terrible playYou keep saying that he got us "lost" in this hand. You also keep saying that it'd be better to put in $90 preflop than it would be to put in $50 preflop becuase then you'd have been reraised and you'd "know where you're at" which is a load of crap becuase the SB could be raising with trash becuase he thinks you're coming in light from the CO. All of this stuff that you're mentioning works both ways and if you're not smart enough to realize that, you really shouldn't be posting here.We are lost in the hand. We have absolutely no idea where we are at. I mean the general goal seems to be that we either raise the flop and take it down or we call the flop bet and fold to a turn bet. Would the SB in this hand bet the turn as a semibluff or if a scare card hits. Quite possibly, but we have no read so our big postflop edge doesnt really exist. Lets just hope he check folds the turn here cause otherwise we're screwed. The play of limping in here is INCREDIBLY standard. Neither of us are super deep in chips and we don't need to start inflating a pot with a suited connector. Naismith is smarter than the average bear and will effectively use his position in the hand to make better decisions than his opponent will. That's why we play speculative hands with position.LOL at open limping from the CO being standard. Limping 109s is perfectly acceptable if their are a few limpers before hand. Playing a drawing hand not that deepstacked in a hu or 3 way pot generally isnt that great. Since if the flop comes Q42 with 2 spades and we pick up a flush draw our implied odds arent that great and its difficult to play aggressively without pot committing yourselfIt seems pretty obvious to me (and other chime in here if you like) that you've seen one too many poker shows on TV and think that DN is the be-all and end-all of crafty poker players. Wake up. He's a great player. He has his style. There are an infinite number of styles to adopt and an equally large number of ways to play any given hand. You saying that he went totally wrong here is just ingorant.No winning style includes that much limping from the CO. I mean sure its possible to play 40/10 and win but most likely someone whos playing 25/20 or 19/16 are better at poker then someone playing something different You'd rather he come in raising? Ok, he opens for $40 or $50 (which is a standard raise in the game) and the SB now reraises to $150 or $180. Now we have to fold and we just invested $50 and didn't get to see a flop. What if we would've flopped a straight? We have taken ourself out of the pot with our preflop action. Good players want to see flops. Good players don't need (or don't want) the betting iniative in every single hand that they are in because they're better than their opponents and can win hands from many different angles.Yea then we fold. But more often then not we raise preflop and pick up the blinds or we raise preflop get called, then take the pot down with a cbet. Saying good players want to see flops is a horrible blanket statement. Is the OP better then his opponent in this situation. Possibly but I highly doubt he has some huge sort of edge that will allow him to play hands terribly preflop and make up for it with awesome postflop play. A limp-call here is not the only line to take in the hand, but it is a perfectly acceptable one. Maybe you should try and figure out why.Raising or folding are both pretty acceptable. Limp calling is pretty bad. Oh, wait, you're already better than all of us. That's why you're asking for $100 for lessons (you teach Hellmuth's top 10 hands?) about God knows what and asking people to trasfer you $100 and falling for retarded scammer crap on FT? Seriosuly. If you're so good, go earn your own money. On the other hand, if you're as good as everyone else here probably thinks that you are (skill level: narcoleptic chimp), then try and post something constructive and learn something. In order to be condescending about poker to someone, you should probably have a higher skill level than they do. Since that is not the case here, go back to your freerolls.Bashing someone for the stakes they play doesnt accomplish much. Funny that the player whos playing freerolls is giving the best NL advice in this thread. (Took me a few days, but I got back to it :club: )
Im sorry but a lot of this advice is awful so ill give my opinions
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LOL at this thread. If it helps, I wasn't the first in. I limped after a limper. The limper folded to the raise and I took the flop heads up. I didn't mention it because I wasn't really caring about preflop in this hand. I wanted advice on the flop. That all said, I sometimes raise my suited connectors, I sometimes don't. Anyone who says you have to do anything every time is crazy.

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LOL at this thread. If it helps, I wasn't the first in. I limped after a limper. The limper folded to the raise and I took the flop heads up. I didn't mention it because I wasn't really caring about preflop in this hand. I wanted advice on the flop. That all said, I sometimes raise my suited connectors, I sometimes don't. Anyone who says you have to do anything every time is crazy.
BTW generally id raise his flop bet here since it was so small while id probly just call a larger one.
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lost me here.
lolI have to agree that open-limping T9s in the CO isn't as good a play as raising with it.I think its raising > folding > limp/calling, with folding and limping pretty close to each other. Just to see, go to your PokerTracker and set a filter for suited connectors in the CO/Button with a chance to steal blinds and you raised. I'm showing a decent profit. When it's chance to steal and called, I'm showing an extremely marginal profit.
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lolI have to agree that open-limping T9s in the CO isn't as good a play as raising with it.I think its raising > folding > limp/calling, with folding and limping pretty close to each other. Just to see, go to your PokerTracker and set a filter for suited connectors in the CO/Button with a chance to steal blinds and you raised. I'm showing a decent profit. When it's chance to steal and called, I'm showing an extremely marginal profit.
you are missing the point if you think that "raising > folding > limp/calling" is the way T9s is played.
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Thanks for the help pp24. You pretty much covered my comebacks. And the other guy's comment about 5/10NL players acting quickly and not fkcing around?...lol. are you serious? If you really ever played 5/10NL you would know that people generally take MUCH MORE time to make a decision when there is potentially thousands of dollars at risk. You guys can poke fun at me all you want about me playing freerolls. I will never play online for real money, that crap is freakin rigged. And seriously, I would be cleaning up at the WSOP right now, but recently lost 4 or 5 hands with KK in 2 weeks at the casino with no flop being higher than Q high. Then I lost a $1,000 pot with AA all-in preflop against KK and lose to a K on the river. Y'all are lucky I run like poop.

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You keep saying that he got us "lost" in this hand. You also keep saying that it'd be better to put in $90 preflop than it would be to put in $50 preflop becuase then you'd have been reraised and you'd "know where you're at" which is a load of crap becuase the SB could be raising with trash becuase he thinks you're coming in light from the CO. All of this stuff that you're mentioning works both ways and if you're not smart enough to realize that, you really shouldn't be posting here.(Took me a few days, but I got back to it :club: )
The way, I played it, I put in $90 preflop. Flop comes 10 high, SB will do one of 2 things:(Keeping in mind, SB hasn't played one single hand since we sat down 20 hands ago. I guarantee you he doesn't have rags. You call my post a load of crap, but you aren't even paying attention to what the fcku is going on in the previous hands. Since when did the SB become a "steal" position in a pot with $20 in it? lol. Get a clue guy.)1. So say SB has JJ or better, you have to think he will over-bet the flop trying to protect. That's pretty standard. I put in my $90 then fold on the flop when I know I'm probably drawing to 5 outs.or2. Say the SB has AK or AQ, this isn't going to be a over-bet on the flop and he may not bet at all. So now, a pair of 10's doesn't look so bad. right? The more I think about, the more I think that the SB in the hand Naismith played, I think villain had AK. So I put in $90 and know where I am. That means I know what I'm going to do before the next card comes. If thinking ahead to the next card is dumb, then forgive me. I guess I'm just a freerolling noob.Naismith put in $50 PF, $50 on the flop and still has no clue what to do on the turn. That's $100 in and he's probably folding to a bet on the turn. There's a word for that type of play "CALLING STATION" and last time I checked, that's a weak *** play.Carry on.
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Thanks for the help pp24. You pretty much covered my comebacks. And the other guy's comment about 5/10NL players acting quickly and not fkcing around?...lol. are you serious? If you really ever played 5/10NL you would know that people generally take MUCH MORE time to make a decision when there is potentially thousands of dollars at risk. You guys can poke fun at me all you want about me playing freerolls. I will never play online for real money, that crap is freakin rigged. And seriously, I would be cleaning up at the WSOP right now, but recently lost 4 or 5 hands with KK in 2 weeks at the casino with no flop being higher than Q high. Then I lost a $1,000 pot with AA all-in preflop against KK and lose to a K on the river. Y'all are lucky I run like poop.
Maybe your real problem is only playing the Nuts and 2nd Nuts in what I imagine is a pretty fast structured satellite.
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