Touugh Spot With An Overpair

[Naismith 0]

I'm sure we've all been in this situation and run into aces.I think in order of frequency:Flush drawQQAAAJJJMid-pair

[Naismith 0]

If you are heads up against a very loose player when you are both semi deep, wouldn't you 4 bet AA out of position?

Depends on whether you're re-raising me preflop a lot.I had a guy re-raise me quite often preflop and he certainly wasn't always doing it with monsters. Twice I had AA/KK and he folded to my re-re-raise. Finally, the third time it dawned on me...raise/call, check/raise.That way was more fun. And by fun, I mean profitable.

[Roberts2003 0]

Depends on whether you're re-raising me preflop a lot.I had a guy re-raise me quite often preflop and he certainly wasn't always doing it with monsters. Twice I had AA/KK and he folded to my re-re-raise. Finally, the third time it dawned on me...raise/call, check/raise.That way was more fun. And by fun, I mean profitable.

haha, alright. its just that my long heads up match with him as well as my current table image probably would lead him to think that i WOULD call a 4 bet with a PP or SCs. i have 150BB at beginning of hand and he has me covered. if he really wants to win a big pot, shouldn't he start getting as much $ as he can in preflop against a lag fish like me?

[Naismith 0]

haha, alright. its just that my long heads up match with him as well as my current table image probably would lead him to think that i WOULD call a 4 bet with a PP or SCs. i have 150BB at beginning of hand and he has me covered. if he really wants to win a big pot, shouldn't he start getting as much $ as he can in preflop against a lag fish like me?

Obviously. But you're certainly not getting it all in with 9s8s, right? On the other hand, you might re-raise preflop with it and fire out a flop c-bet. He doesn't know you have KK here, remember.

[fckthis 0]

I don't know that we can say this is AA. Competent villain flat called our PF raise?

Ive seen it so many times. At this level, 4 betting is essentially playing your hand faceup, while calling still has a wider range. This is an exact situation Ive been in, where villian decides to put it all in on a weird flop, when I have expressed PF strength. He knows what we have, and he expects a call a large % of the time here, as for anyone KK here isnt the easiet fold.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Ive seen it so many times. At this level, 4 betting is essentially playing your hand faceup, while calling still has a wider range. This is an exact situation Ive been in, where villian decides to put it all in on a weird flop, when I have expressed PF strength. He knows what we have, and he expects a call a large % of the time here, as for anyone KK here isnt the easiet fold.

Sh and HU, though ... a lot of hands tend to push PF. If someone is willing to 3 bet, they're probably calling my AIPF.

[Roberts2003 0]

Sh and HU, though ... a lot of hands tend to push PF. If someone is willing to 3 bet, they're probably calling my AIPF.

no offense, but this is absolutely not true at SH or HE. 3 betting ranges are almost as wide, if not as wide, as opening raises. Just because someone 3 bets does not at all mean they have a hand worthy of AIPF. this is not meant to be a brag, but here is a hand where i 3 bet preflop and bet flop and turn with absolutely nothing.http://www.pokerhand.org/?1161206i posted this hand just now to demonstrate how light 3 betting is. so saying 3 betting=calling AIPF is just flat out wrong at SH and HU.

[mtdesmoines 3]

1. no offense, but this is absolutely not true at SH or HE. 3 betting ranges are almost as wide, if not as wide, as opening raises. Just because someone 3 bets does not at all mean they have a hand worthy of AIPF. 2. this is not meant to be a brag, but here is a hand where i 3 bet preflop and bet flop and turn with absolutely nothing.http://www.pokerhand.org/?11612063. i posted this hand just now to demonstrate how light 3 betting is. so saying 3 betting=calling AIPF is just flat out wrong at SH and HU.

1. I don't play $5/10 HU, but I can tell you at lower limits ($1/2 HU), it's absolutely true that the PF pushing range is very broad. Once you go DSed, then it changes a little. But not much.2. I don't know that this is the same situation. On the other hand, if villain is capable of going as light as you did PF in this hand, then it's easy for him to have a 3 and know you can't fold KK/AA3. CALLING AIPF is a lot different than going AIPF. Now I have to review what I said ...EDIT: OK, I said a a lot of hands tend to PUSH AIPF. I didn't say a broad range of hands CALLED AIPF. Now, we were talking relevant to my argument that AA would go AIPF. Why would AA choose to go AI after flop, when it resisted PF?

[NoBBiR 0]

Resultsssssssss?

[Royal_Tour 0]

If you are heads up against a very loose player when you are both semi deep, wouldn't you 4 bet AA out of position?

Depends on whether you're re-raising me preflop a lot.I had a guy re-raise me quite often preflop and he certainly wasn't always doing it with monsters. Twice I had AA/KK and he folded to my re-re-raise. Finally, the third time it dawned on me...raise/call, check/raise.That way was more fun. And by fun, I mean profitable.

Ive seen it so many times. At this level, 4 betting is essentially playing your hand faceup, while calling still has a wider range. This is an exact situation Ive been in, where villian decides to put it all in on a weird flop, when I have expressed PF strength. He knows what we have, and he expects a call a large % of the time here, as for anyone KK here isnt the easiet fold.

me response is pretty much what these two nerds wrote.how did the hand go Roberts?

[Naismith 0]

I don't need him to post results. The way this hand played, it is exactly QQ, guaranteed. Nice pot, OP.

[NoSup4U 0]

I'm laggy and I fold this like never.Mark

[Roberts2003 0]

damn Naismith, how DID you know??? results are the villain had QQ and KK held in a 3K pot. i still think this is a very tough spot, and QQ is literally the only hand we dominate at the moment, maybe like AJ suited as well. guys watch out for Naismith though. Even before i had called his all in, he IMed me and insisted that I should call with my KK to beat his QQ. ladies and gentleman, that is one world class read.

[fckthis 0]

Get villian on your buddy list...he plays really bad.

[Royal_Tour 0]

Get villian on your buddy list...he plays really bad.

my thoughts exactlyRoberts,your post about him being a reallly good regular is obv flawed

[Roberts2003 0]

i dont think he made a bad play. in his mind i could stack off with a jack or worse. also, he is defintely one of the better players at 5 10 NL. having QQ to KK here is a pretty big cooler in my mind.

[Naismith 0]

i dont think he made a bad play. in his mind i could stack off with a jack or worse. also, he is defintely one of the better players at 5 10 NL. having QQ to KK here is a pretty big cooler in my mind.

Keep in mind, this is the guy who told me his opponent was coolered when his A5 ran into Roberts' J9 on a J5x board.

[fckthis 0]

i dont think he made a bad play. in his mind i could stack off with a jack or worse. also, he is defintely one of the better players at 5 10 NL. having QQ to KK here is a pretty big cooler in my mind.

Ok aside from you having a jack and stacking off, which IMO would be pretty hard, considering he overbet this pot grossly, he usually gets called by hands that beat him, and loses the maxium, or lets you get away from the weaker hand. Lets say you hold KJ or AJ in that spot....are you calling, honestly? Cause if the answer is yes..then I guess theres justification, but you don't seem like the player who would do so, from what I gather from your posts.

[Jordan 1]

judging someone's total game from one hand is pretty funny.- Jordan

[fckthis 0]

judging someone's total game from one hand is pretty funny.- Jordan

well if u play overpairs badly, you usually are bad.

[NoSup4U 0]

well if u play overpairs badly, you play on Stars.

FYP ;)Mark

[TheCallingstation 0]

Royal - If I'm the villain and I think the Hero will call with worse than QQ and that he doesn't show up with AA or KK here that often, yeah, I'll push QQ and let him try and make a hero call. It wouldn't be my default move, but people do stupid things with overpairs.Roberts - This is rarely ever air. I have seen people make this move with 88-TT plenty of times. I think it's a flush draw WAY more often than it is a middle pair. I think you gotta instacall this, and live with results, especially if you have any kind of laggy image.

Exactly my thoughts and my experiences are the same. Instacall. I mean what flop are you hoping for...? And secondly you are not thaaaat deepstacked. In Live play this would be a very different story, where you can see people and get them to talk. But online is online... I recently saved me a few thousand dollars in a situation like you were in, but it was live, and I saw how this guy was satisfied with his hand and I folded my KK on 247 Board, he then showed me his Aces. But ONLINE you dont have that ability, so I'm telling you push the chips in the middle, with this harmless flopp. What are you losing to tight right now? JJ/ AA and a 3. But you are beating so many other hands. QQ, AJ, some kind of draw (was the flop suited? Idont know anymore), TT and so forth. So again, online = instapush.

[Royal_Tour 0]

i dont think he made a bad play. in his mind i could stack off with a jack or worse. also, he is defintely one of the better players at 5 10 NL. having QQ to KK here is a pretty big cooler in my mind.

flop K,Q,4 is a cooler in my mind.an over pair stack off, is just that. shoveling all your chips in with an over pair.not something i usually do when my stack is healthy vs a competent player.I really dont see you playing AJ or KJ, and I've seen bad players get away from TP, so i would expect you could too. which is why i dont understand villains c/r all in.

[Jordan 1]

well if u play overpairs badly, you usually are bad.

yes. and everyone plays perfect all the time.- Jordan

[Royal_Tour 0]

yes. and everyone plays perfect all the time.- Jordan

No, its not that, i'm just looking at it from my perspective.boiled down to my limits (with a competent group of 200NL players for example)I'd have roughly 300, and villain easily covers @ 1/2Not "deep stacks" but doin ok.The way it was played it seems that villain puts roberts on AK,AQ AJ,KJ. (10,10??) but he has no idea because he hasnt found anything out. which is where we get the "bad player" vibe from.