Tough Spot With 88

[GabeTheKid 0]

It's one of these situations that I find I don't know how to play right. I don't know what the right way to play this is. I think I should have raised to 10 preflop but it's not like it makes a big difference either way. If he calls 6, he'll call 8. And since I'm playing OOP, I want to manage the pot. But, he's shortstacked which makes this that much harder. Please comment on all streets and the best way to approach and play this hand. PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)BB ($197)UTG ($284.95)MP ($84.25)Button ($190)Hero ($206.30)Preflop: Hero is SB with 8, 8. 1 fold, MP calls $2, 1 fold, Hero raises to $8, 1 fold, MP calls $6.Flop: ($18) J, 2, 6(2 players)Hero bets $12, MP raises to $28, Hero ?I can see him raising this with air or with a J and I just don't know what the best play is. No reads.what about a check/raise and fold to shove? is that a good line? what if i check/raise and he calls? check/fold turn?

[linkwood 0]

Being against a short stack sucks. Its either a push or fold situation, but without a really good read my standard line is to just fold. Have you seen the villain min raise bluff on a dry board like this before?

[dms26 3]

He has to be making a move at this pot with air alot to not fold to his raise. I think preflop is fine, and you made a good size c-bet. He could be testing you but what kind of hand could he have that you beat? This flop is very dry, so he's not drawing. I just don't think this is a bluff often enough to continue. Check-raise/ folding is too expensive not to see a turn or river so I don't really like that either against a shorty.I tend to give him credit for a better hand or a well timed raise. I think this is a hand like QJ, KJ and maybe a passive AJ more often than a hand you can beat.

[GabeTheKid 0]

He has to be making a move at this pot with air alot to not fold to his raise. I think preflop is fine, and you made a good size c-bet. He could be testing you but what kind of hand could he have that you beat? This flop is very dry, so he's not drawing. I just don't think this is a bluff often enough to continue. Check-raise/ folding is too expensive not to see a turn or river so I don't really like that either against a shorty.I tend to give him credit for a better hand or a well timed raise. I think this is a hand like QJ, KJ and maybe a passive AJ more often than a hand you can beat.

what about calling that raise and check/folding the turn?

[mtdesmoines 3]

It's one of these situations that I find I don't know how to play right. I don't know what the right way to play this is. I think I should have raised to 10 preflop but it's not like it makes a big difference either way. If he calls 6, he'll call 8. And since I'm playing OOP, I want to manage the pot. But, he's shortstacked which makes this that much harder. Please comment on all streets and the best way to approach and play this hand. PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)BB ($197)UTG ($284.95)MP ($84.25)Button ($190)Hero ($206.30)Preflop: Hero is SB with 8, 8. 1 fold, MP calls $2, 1 fold, Hero raises to $8, 1 fold, MP calls $6.Flop: ($18) J, 2, 6(2 players)Hero bets $12, MP raises to $28, Hero ?I can see him raising this with air or with a J and I just don't know what the best play is. No reads.what about a check/raise and fold to shove? is that a good line? what if i check/raise and he calls? check/fold turn?

I think the theme for the day is "weak flop bet causes villain to make move on pot."However, even lowly JT is miles ahead. Make a stronger flop bet next time this happens.

[Money022 0]

I think the theme for the day is "weak flop bet causes villain to make move on pot."However, even lowly JT is miles ahead. Make a stronger flop bet next time this happens.

You really think betting 2/3 the pot or $12 into and $18 pot heads up is weak? I certainly don't think calling then check/folding is a good idea. The only card that you're going to feel good about is another 8. Any overcard would be a disaster and any low card still has you guessing. I think folding is the best option considering this guy is short. He has something here and whatever it is has you beat more often than not.

[GabeTheKid 0]

I think the theme for the day is "weak flop bet causes villain to make move on pot."However, even lowly JT is miles ahead. Make a stronger flop bet next time this happens.

hmm...look at the board and the texture of the flop...how is this weak? rainbow board with all cards far away from each other and I should be betting pot? I don't see the logic.

[Lavitz 0]

This is a fold. Although sometimes shortstacks do stupid things and push with hands like A6 here, more then not he has a jack. If there was a flush draw it would be a little closer because he might be raising that.

[dms26 3]

what about calling that raise and check/folding the turn?

IMO you should only be calling that raise if you think you have the best hand. Calling a raise with the intention of folding to any non 8 is kinda pointless. He's already stuck in about 40% of his stack I don't see him just giving up on the hand so easily.I think this is a case where even if you are good right now you can't stand heat on the turn unless you hit an 8, and if you're beat you're crushed. I usually play full ring though so maybe short handed players will disagree.

[dms26 3]

hmm...look at the board and the texture of the flop...how is this weak? rainbow board with all cards far away from each other and I should be betting pot? I don't see the logic.

I don't have a porblem with the bet, 2/3 of the pot is fine. As long as you'd bet the same amount if you had AK or 66.

[mtdesmoines 3]

A. You really think betting 2/3 the pot or $12 into and $18 pot heads up is weak? B. I certainly don't think calling then check/folding is a good idea. The only card that you're going to feel good about is another 8. Any overcard would be a disaster and any low card still has you guessing. I think folding is the best option considering this guy is short. He has something here and whatever it is has you beat more often than not.

A. against a shortie, yes, I do, actually .... you can't give him weasel room here, or he'll take it ... he has less at risk, and he's going to throw everything at you when he senses weaknessB. Anything that happens after the weak flop bet IS probably a fold ... We open up pots for stealing when we don't defend our PPs. This really isn't a terrifying board.

[Lavitz 0]

A. against a shortie, yes, I do, actually .... you can't give him weasel room here, or he'll take it ... he has less at risk, and he's going to throw everything at you when he senses weaknessB. Anything that happens after the weak flop bet IS probably a fold ... We open up pots for stealing when we don't defend our PPs. This really isn't a terrifying board.

Betting more on flop against a shortstack just means we commit ourselves to an underpair and are forced to call when he pushes and when he does push we will be dominated in most cases. Betting 2/3 pot is fine I think. it's not really "weak" unless the OP usually makes his c-bets pot sized and shortstack knows this (unlikely). Most of my c-bets are 2/3 potish.

[Webslinger516 0]

I also think 2/3 of the pot is fine. Daniel talked about bet sizes in his post: "By betting about two-thirds of the pot, instead of the entire amount, you'll save a little bit of money on your bluff attempts. It will also define your opponent's hand. As a bonus, you'll get extra calls when you do catch a monster hand."How much should you bet?I don't think we can just assume a shortstack will always push when he smells weakness, if so add that guy to your friend's list because he should be easy to trap for the rest of his money. After the 2/3 pot bet (which isn't weak imo), and you're raised, I think we're done here - fold.

[mtdesmoines 3]

I also think 2/3 of the pot is fine. Daniel talked about bet sizes in his post: "By betting about two-thirds of the pot, instead of the entire amount, you'll save a little bit of money on your bluff attempts. It will also define your opponent's hand. As a bonus, you'll get extra calls when you do catch a monster hand."How much should you bet?I don't think we can just assume a shortstack will always push when he smells weakness, if so add that guy to your friend's list because he should be easy to trap for the rest of his money. After the 2/3 pot bet (which isn't weak imo), and you're raised, I think we're done here - fold.

Hmm. What would you think about a check raise?

[Acid_Knight 2]

mtdesmoines-This is the perfect flop bet. If the villain has AA, KK or any hand that he wants to bet here, why would he ever bet more than 2/3 of the pot to "protect" his hand? There are no draws out there and the bet is designed to get calls from worse hands. If he's gonna bet 2/3 of the pot with AA or KK here, he should be doing it with 88 and AQ as well. There is nothing weak about this bet. Also, the villain isn't *that* short here. He's still got chips to call, to raise, to check-raise or do whatever he wants, so I wouldn't factor that in too much.Now, onto the hand a little more...How would betting $15 or $18 on the flop change anything? Would it make it an easier fold if he raised? I don't think it changes anything. The main factor here is that you're OOP and this is a fold 100% of the time unless you have a read otherwise. In position, if you were check-raised, then I might consider calling and seeing what he does on the turn becuase many villains will become very worried at that point.You don't have position and you're drawing to 2 outs if you're behind. You played the hand well to this point, now let it go and move on to the next one.

[fckthis 0]

Fold-o-rama.Without a solid read of course.

[Webslinger516 0]

Hmm. What would you think about a check raise?

It'd be too fancy in this situation I think. Why check-raise? For better information? What if he calls your check-raise? Give it up on the turn? If he reraises, for sure we're folding. Seems like a check-raise is more expensive than betting 2/3 pot.