Pot Odds RAC 23 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Mon, 04 Jun 2007 21:46:00Protect Your Hand When Gavin's AroundIn early postion Gavin Smith moved all-in and Jon Friedberg started thinking about calling. Friedberg has been deliberate in his decision-making, and he took his time separating out the amount he'd have left if he just called. It was a measly stack of around 10K, which Friedberg joked were his "bluffing chips." Before he had made any move, Smith reached over for Friedberg's cards to have a look for himself. Some minor commotion was raised, with Smith saying "You should protect your cards if you don't want anyone looking at them." Friedberg eventually mucked....guess I really should have put this post in the Sticky for this event. Link to post Share on other sites
HubDub04 0 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Well if the action is to Friedberg all in, then its not that bad. Bad etiquette yes, but illegal, i'm not sure. Link to post Share on other sites
silkyjonson 1 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Mon, 04 Jun 2007 21:46:00Protect Your Hand When Gavin's AroundIn early postion Gavin Smith moved all-in and Jon Friedberg started thinking about calling. Friedberg has been deliberate in his decision-making, and he took his time separating out the amount he'd have left if he just called. It was a measly stack of around 10K, which Friedberg joked were his "bluffing chips." Before he had made any move, Smith reached over for Friedberg's cards to have a look for himself. Some minor commotion was raised, with Smith saying "You should protect your cards if you don't want anyone looking at them." Friedberg eventually mucked....guess I really should have put this post in the Sticky for this event.ummmm not really a big deal. Gavin is actually giving Friedberg an advantage, he can see Gavin's reaction to his hand. Link to post Share on other sites
rog 0 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Reached over and looked at his opponent's live hand? You can't tell me that's not illegal. Okay, you can, but I might not believe you. If this hand gets folded, Gavin has no right to know what cards he was playing. Link to post Share on other sites
Pot Odds RAC 23 Posted June 5, 2007 Author Share Posted June 5, 2007 ummmm not really a big deal. Gavin is actually giving Friedberg an advantage, he can see Gavin's reaction to his hand.It is a big deal. It would NOT be legal in tournament play for Friedberg to show his hand. And Friedberg has the right to muck without showing his hand. Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Before he had made any move, Smith reached over for Friedberg's cards to have a look for himself. Some minor commotion was raised, with Smith saying "You should protect your cards if you don't want anyone looking at them."That's crap. He should get a penalty. Link to post Share on other sites
milbucksfans 0 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 How anyone can trivialize a blatantly illegal move like this is beyond me. When's the last time you let someone handle your cards at the table without asking you? Link to post Share on other sites
silkyjonson 1 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 It is a big deal. It would NOT be legal in tournament play for Friedberg to show his hand. And Friedberg has the right to muck without showing his hand.Just saying I don't know if I would go making threads about it. But clearly this is a very important subject for you so by all means lets call up the WSOP and get this dealt with. Link to post Share on other sites
ghostlove 0 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 gavin is the man. Link to post Share on other sites
Pot Odds RAC 23 Posted June 5, 2007 Author Share Posted June 5, 2007 Just saying I don't know if I would go making threads about it. But clearly this is a very important subject for you so by all means lets call up the WSOP and get this dealt with.I'll try and remember to check with you next time before I start a new thread to ensure it meets your standards. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Isn't any player at the table permitted to see mucked cards at the end of a hand if they wish?I thought I heard that somewhere. Maybe it was a dream. Link to post Share on other sites
fatman 1 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 gavin is the man. Link to post Share on other sites
silkyjonson 1 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Isn't any player at the table permitted to see mucked cards at the end of a hand if they wish?I thought I heard that somewhere. Maybe it was a dream.nah he did'nt call so no one has a right, the OP is right no one should ever touch your cards. that being said GS is probably drunk and messing around. Link to post Share on other sites
BeaverStyle 1 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 so, wait, opponent was thinking about calling, and gavin smith reached over, and looked at his cards?Explain to me how that's not illegal. Link to post Share on other sites
TheCinciKid 0 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Isn't any player at the table permitted to see mucked cards at the end of a hand if they wish?I thought I heard that somewhere. Maybe it was a dream.Yes and no, if you call a bet on the end with the losing hand and muck, it's legal for anyone who wants to to ask to see those cards. It's considered very bad etiquette and very rarely done, but it is legal. I think the situation the OP is referring to is a little different b/c Friedberg could still fold, in which case it would not be legal for anyone to look at his hand unless he shows it. Link to post Share on other sites
FoxwoodsPro 0 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 gavin is the man. Link to post Share on other sites
dbrent2 0 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Gavin was wrong. Doing something like this in a charity tournament is fine with me, but not when there is big money on the line... Link to post Share on other sites
Billy 0 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Maybe he was just joking around and wasn't actually going to look at them... Link to post Share on other sites
Moneyball16 0 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Im sure there was a misunderstanding. Gavin wouldnt seriously do this. He knows it would be wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
socalpoker_j 1 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Where's Phil Gordon at to assess the 30 min. penalty? Link to post Share on other sites
Flushgarden 0 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I'd find him somewhere outside of the casino and beat the **** out of that degerate slob. Link to post Share on other sites
Mikey Ravioli 0 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I wouldn't have said anything and the next time he played a pot I would have walked over to him and smashed him in the mouth with a beer bottle.Then while he was down on the floor picking up his teeth, I would look at his cards. Link to post Share on other sites
Dogpatch 2 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Isn't any player at the table permitted to see mucked cards at the end of a hand if they wish?I thought I heard that somewhere. Maybe it was a dream.Only if the hand goes to showdown.Example: Player A bets on the river. Player B calls. Player A must show his hand first. If Player B cannot beat the showed hand, he may muck his cards. At that time, anyone who was involved in the hand may ask to see his cards. This is to protect against collusion. Asking to see the cards is basically accusing the person of cheating.If player B DOES NOT CALL, he may muck his cards and noone is allowed to see them. Link to post Share on other sites
bampote 0 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 It's worth noting that Gavin and Friedberg know each other, so while it was still a highly questionable move, I doubt Gavin would do that to a complete stranger. Anyway, I'm sure he'll explain the situation on Pokerwire. Link to post Share on other sites
psujohn 0 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I'm 99% sure that a) it was a joke and b) Gavin was drinking Link to post Share on other sites
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