ibuddy 0 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Alright so I was in big blind with 36 suited clubs and there was 2 callers preflop and no one raised, I checked as well. Flop comes out A 10 8 2 clubs. I checked guy looked real hesitant and bet out $15 the other player folded. I looked at his stack and he had about $75 so I raised with the flush draw to $50 and he gets all nervous and thinks about it and calls, so the turn comes an 9 and he pushes all in, wasn't much I called, and river was a 4. He flips up QJ for a straight and i muck my hand and he says "I want to see that hand" and I don't get why he would ask to see my hand? He won the pot, what the **** is the point? I told him "No" and put my cards into the deck, the dealer said "sorry." The guy mouths off "I should be able to see the cards" I told him "you won the pot and called your 4 outter (yes I know there was 8 outs for his straight but let's not get technical here) and got lucky and now you want to see my cards whats the point??"I dont know about u guys but I think "asking to see someones cards is unethical and there should be a ruling on it if its mucked its mucked" I put a $200 bet on the river with the flop AA39J (I have AJ), the other player in the pot took a long time so I know she had a big hand, she ended up mucking so I thought I would show her my hand since she took so long, and flashed my cards to only her. Of course what happens next????? Some jackass on the other end of the table "Let me see those cards" like why do people make it such a big deal to see someone elses cards? I dont give a **** what you have if im not in the pot.Is it just me or do you find this unethical? Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 It's not unethical, it's the rules of poker.If you are called at the river, or it checks down, any player dealt into the hand has a right to ask to see your hand. Normally the dealer will kill it by touching the muck with it, so you can't win the hand (if you misread it or something), but it's our right to see the information that the person calling your bet paid for.Actually, I'm pretty sure it's any hand that reaches showdown, so if you call a bet, and the bettor shows, and you muck, someone can still ask.Why do you think they show you this information in the HHs online? Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 I told him "No" and put my cards into the deckI told him "you won the pot and called your 4 outter (yes I know there was 8 outs for his straight but let's not get technical here) and got lucky and now you want to see my cards whats the point??"It's his right. You were out of line.What he did is bad etiquette. What you did was worse. Link to post Share on other sites
loxo 0 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Alright so I was in big blind with 36 suited clubs and there was 2 callers preflop and no one raised, I checked as well. Flop comes out A 10 8 2 clubs. I checked guy looked real hesitant and bet out $15 the other player folded. I looked at his stack and he had about $75 so I raised with the flush draw to $50 and he gets all nervous and thinks about it and calls, so the turn comes an 9 and he pushes all in, wasn't much I called, and river was a 4. He flips up QJ for a straight and i muck my hand and he says "I want to see that hand" and I don't get why he would ask to see my hand? He won the pot, what the **** is the point? I told him "No" and put my cards into the deck, the dealer said "sorry." The guy mouths off "I should be able to see the cards" I told him "you won the pot and called your 4 outter (yes I know there was 8 outs for his straight but let's not get technical here) and got lucky and now you want to see my cards whats the point??"I dont know about u guys but I think "asking to see someones cards is unethical and there should be a ruling on it if its mucked its mucked" I put a $200 bet on the river with the flop AA39J (I have AJ), the other player in the pot took a long time so I know she had a big hand, she ended up mucking so I thought I would show her my hand since she took so long, and flashed my cards to only her. Of course what happens next????? Some jackass on the other end of the table "Let me see those cards" like why do people make it such a big deal to see someone elses cards? I dont give a **** what you have if im not in the pot.Is it just me or do you find this unethical?That's probably a leak. Link to post Share on other sites
tizzerd 0 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 isn't this exactly the same as seeing what someone mucked online after the river? Who doesnt do that? Link to post Share on other sites
chrozzo 19 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 i dunkwoot Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 i dunkwootyou seem like a nice guy but do you have to post in every thread with no content.And OP, you get no sympathy here on this oneHe's within his rights Link to post Share on other sites
koolromeo 0 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 the reason i would want to see your hand would be to find out what you raised $50 with. Link to post Share on other sites
jht001 0 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 In the first instance, you did commit a faux pas. He certainly did have the right to see your cards.In the second instance, you should've just mucked or flipped them over for all to see. Show one, show all... Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 There was a discussion about this last week and the changing attitudes brought about by the new players who have started online. Zach's comment shows the attitude.It is the player's right to see the hand but he should never ask to see it. In the past if you asked to see another player's hand what you were basically saying is that you think the other player is cheating. Asking to see a player's hand only slows the game down and causes problems. More fights have been started by this then anything else I've seen at the tables.The reason the rule is there isn't so that a player can see how somebody else plays, it's there to help stop cheating. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 That's true, I think.I was under the impression, at least if you were the one calling a bet on the river, that you essentially "paid" for the information of seeing the person's hand?I do agree though, that you really shouldn't ask for it. I try to do it very rarely while playing live, really only when I feel the need to get a read on a guy who's playing weird.Sometimes, you could even use it as a way to get someone to tilt, but I think that could be heading towards the unethical thing we're talking about, and perhaps angle shooting. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 That's true, I think.I was under the impression, at least if you were the one calling a bet on the river, that you essentially "paid" for the information of seeing the person's hand?I do agree though, that you really shouldn't ask for it. I try to do it very rarely while playing live, really only when I feel the need to get a read on a guy who's playing weird.Sometimes, you could even use it as a way to get someone to tilt, but I think that could be heading towards the unethical thing we're talking about, and perhaps angle shooting.It isn't online, you don't get to see hands that aren't tabled and it'll take you longer to get a read on a player.Just ask yourself if you think the player might be cheating, if the answer is no then don't ask to see their hand. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 It isn't online, you don't get to see hands that aren't tabled and it'll take you longer to get a read on a player.Just ask yourself if you think the player might be cheating, if the answer is no then don't ask to see their hand.Well, I never suspect a player at my 3/6 game to be cheating, lol. They're lucky enough if they're able to tie their own shoes.Of course, I haven't been in the game nearly as long as you, and I am an "internet punk" , but I was under the impression that it was in the rules that you could ask to see any hand you wanted if it goes to showdown?I'm not talking about customs, or ethics, or anything like that, but just straight up, if it's a rule or not. I realize it's not courteous to ask every hand for various reasons, mind you.Just curious. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 It isn't online, you don't get to see hands that aren't tabled and it'll take you longer to get a read on a player.Just ask yourself if you think the player might be cheating, if the answer is no then don't ask to see their hand.you're old Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWalsh 0 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 If I call someone on the river I always wait for them to show me first before exposing mine. Sometimes you get a jackass who will wait for you to show but I find a simple, stern 'I called you, show the cards' tends to work. If they are an older or experienced player I'll add 'and you know that' on the end to stress that they are being cheeky.I feel that if you call someone and flip your cards you are giving them the option to muck if they are no good and that the rules are only there to prevent cheating.The problem nearly always comes from a young player who knows the rules but not the reason for them being there. Experience at the table will eventually fix this. That being said, OP is a jerk for what he did and although he doesn't have to respect them, he should always follow the rules. I would have called the floor manager over. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Another thing.Since I rarely do actually ask to see a hand, it REALLY bothers me when people won't fricken show down their hands in order.If you bet, and you're called, show your damn hand. Don't sit there waiting for the other guy to show first.That is the situation in which I usually ask to see the guy's hand. If he's being retarded and trying to get the guy to show out of order./rant. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 If I call someone on the river I always wait for them to show me first before exposing mine. Sometimes you get a jackass who will wait for you to show but I find a simple, stern 'I called you, show the cards' tends to work. If they are an older or experienced player I'll add 'and you know that' on the end to stress that they are being cheeky.I feel that if you call someone and flip your cards you are giving them the option to muck if they are no good and that the rules are only there to prevent cheating.The problem nearly always comes from a young player who knows the rules but not the reason for them being there. Experience at the table will eventually fix this. That being said, OP is a jerk for what he did and although he doesn't have to respect them, he should always follow the rules. I would have called the floor manager over.^^ You beat me to it. I agree with you 100%. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 you're oldTell me something that I don't know. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Well, I never suspect a player at my 3/6 game to be cheating, lol. They're lucky enough if they're able to tie their own shoes.Of course, I haven't been in the game nearly as long as you, and I am an "internet punk" , but I was under the impression that it was in the rules that you could ask to see any hand you wanted if it goes to showdown?I'm not talking about customs, or ethics, or anything like that, but just straight up, if it's a rule or not. I realize it's not courteous to ask every hand for various reasons, mind you.Just curious.Yes, the rule is there that you can request to see the hand. Link to post Share on other sites
psujohn 0 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 If you bet, and you're called, show your damn hand. Don't sit there waiting for the other guy to show first.You know that guy wearing the funny shirt and dealing the cards? That's his job.Seriously - no one but the dealer can demand that someone flip their cards. If you call on the river and want to see the other guy's card just wait. Any half competent dealer will quickly ask him to flip 'em.As for asking to see cards that a player revealed to someone else .... This is the one thing I'll do. If they notice it some dealers will do it automatically. There is clearly a rule that says if you reveal your card to one player you need to reveal them to everyone at the table. The other rule though - any player dealt into the hand can ask to see any hand that went to showdown - is as Bob said an accusation of cheating. The ONLY time I think it would be appropriate is if you think two players may be colluding against the table. Either they appear to be friends or you notice a pattern of their getting into hands together and squeezing the guys in the middle. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Tell me something that I don't know.It's ok Actuary is old too. Link to post Share on other sites
Dr_Shakes 0 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 QUOTE(ibuddy @ Monday, May 28th, 2007, 1:14 AM) *I dont know about u guys but I think "asking to see someones cards is unethical and there should be a ruling on it if its mucked its mucked" I put a $200 bet on the river with the flop AA39J (I have AJ), the other player in the pot took a long time so I know she had a big hand, she ended up mucking so I thought I would show her my hand since she took so long, and flashed my cards to only her. Of course what happens next????? Some jackass on the other end of the table "Let me see those cards" like why do people make it such a big deal to see someone elses cards? I dont give a **** what you have if im not in the pot.Is it just me or do you find this unethical? That's probably a leak.LOL Pwned! Link to post Share on other sites
loxo 0 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Here is an example from this years Aussie Millions involving Andy Black.http://www.pokertube.com/ShowMovie.aspx?mo...amp;pComIndex=1It's the conclusion of the hand but you can go back a vid if you want to see it all. Link to post Share on other sites
psujohn 0 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Andy was a real jackass in that and deserved to be berated. I'm a bit surprised. I'd expect more from him. And I'd also expect other players at the table to get on his case too. Link to post Share on other sites
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