shynepo3
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Posts posted by shynepo3
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I understand what you mean now.....
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I'm telling you, he usually plays 1/2, but he's been at the 2/5 table lately...and he's blown up on me a few mores time since...lolShynepo,Any bit of advice I could offer in this topic has been covered already. I just wanted to point out that the way villain played AK is EXACTLY the reason I love live poker so much. Doesn't 3 bet you preflop, doesn't raise you on the flop, checks the turn to you, and pays you off on the river.
I'm talking about shoving over the $20 bet...there is still about $200 effective behind (nemisis has about $240). I know once it gets back to me after i do the $120 raise, I have to call though.....it's just the nemisis was weak tight, so folding actually entered my mind, as bad as it owould be.There's no drawback, and no point to betting > 50% of the effective stacks instead of just sticking it in. And you REALLLY don't want to see a 4th diamond come or the board pair. You have to get the value now if someone wants to draw to a naked high diamond or to fill up. And folding should never enter your mind.
lol @ C...that would've been sick if i done that...So someone talks and it encourages you to make the worst of three decisions? Play with me pleaseEitherA) FoldB ) Raise it anywayC) Tell him "no, 9-3 suited this time" and raise it anyway
I had to re-read what you wrote a few times, lol, but you're right....cause actually, had they seen me throw it away, they would've thought, "hey he steals with garbage.., i'm gonna call him with my 55-88,a/j"This is kinda backwards thinking. You actually do want this scenario so when you do "steal" with KK they fight back thinking you are just gonna lay it down cause you are so "loose" Oh...and in case you haven't figured it out already...no...you can't get away from it. Ever.
I limped in on the button, in front of 4 limpers...which isn't bad at all imo....but 9/3 suited, yes, i know, no good...And just when i thought no one would respond to my topics anymore...He didn't open limp, he limped behind two others. That makes it only slightly less worse. -
I was leaning towards a set, and then, especially with the time he took to call utg's shove, it made it more likely. Now, i would think he would raise utg+1's $20 bet with a non-nut flush, and had he called quicker (or with less hollywooding), i may have been inclined to believe he had a nut flush and fold...but it's tough even in that spot.No he didnt have a flush...i ended up just calling the shove, and on the turn, a blank hit. Nemesis then shoves for the rest of his $40, which i obviously call. Now, if a 4th diamond hit, i would've folded, as crazy as it may sound ($40 into a 600+ pot..lol)...but then i would've felt like killing myself. I doubt he would've shoved his last 40 anyways had the 4th diamond came. On the river, the 4th diamond hit.....utg + 1 had set of deuces, and nemisis had a set of 8's.....normally, i would expect nemesis to fold his set on the flop after the raise and raise/shove...so i guess no one is ever folding in this spot..would you fold if utg+1 shoved, and then nemisis overshoved?Wait. Your first post claims that your read is that he had a set. But now you say you may have folded based on your read. Are you worried about a flush or not? Not that it makes much difference cus you are pushing anyway. You just cant fold here.Im guessing you called he had the flush and he told you you shouldnt have called? -
You mean I should have just shoved over the $20 bet? That probably would have been best, because it eliminates me from folding (which I may have done depending on how nemisis called)...at the same time, doesn't shoving have some drawbacks?and corvair, i'm the one who's a bad player...so dont worry, your thinking is probably fine.You're not folding. You shuold have just shoved the flop.And bad players don't c/r flopped flushes. They c/c them - actually would be far better for someone who flopped a flush here to c/r instead of lead. -
Ok, 2/5 live game. I'm on the button with 9/3 suited. I know, i should just fold this hand. My original plan was to actually raise (due to the 5 limpers in front of me), and hopefully take the dead money. But, right before i was about to raise to $50 (with the $50 in my hand), this other player, whom i won a pot off of earlier, said "6/7 suited again?"....he was referring to hand where i raised 3 limpers with 6/7 suited, and he and the BB called my $25 raise. flop came ace, king, 9 with 1 club. i c-bet half the pot when checked to, and when bb folded, this player, whom we'll call "nemesis", took a while before calling. i figure he had a big hand, because he was mostly a weak tight player (but will raise when he thinks his hand is the best), and would only call my pre-flop raise with a good hand (i was hoping for a mid pocket pair once i saw the flop but his flop call indicates a big ace or better). so the turn comes the 5 clubs, which know gives me a gutshot and flush draw. Turn goes check check, and i river the flush. He checks (i told you he was weak tight), and i bet $120 into the $160ish pot, he calls after an eternity, and shows a/k off. He starts going on a rant about how stupid i am to raise 6/7 suited - it doesn't bother me cause he's a regular who always talks shi# to whomever wins a pot off of him. He was like, "why didnt u bet the turn? i was ready to put you all in, blah blah blah"...Sorry for the long intro. so after he makes that comment about 6/7 off, i just call. i was going to fold, but i didn't want the table thinking that i would steal with hands i wouldn't normally even play. So, the Sb completes, and BB checks. And it's 7 players to the flop.Hero has 9
3 
and has the table covered.Flop - $35Q 
2 
8 
SB checksBB checksUTG + 1 bets $20 (stack is $175. he's not a good player, and like all bad players, would probably check raise a flush)Nemisis calls $20 (stack is $220. he's a weak tight player, so his call could mean a flush, or ace of diamonds, set,)2 foldsHero raises to $120 (stack is over $600 - is this raise too much? too little?)UTG + 1 goes all-in for $175Nemisis calls $175 (leaving himself $40 behind)Hero?Nemsis took a very long time to just make the call. He repeatedly says, "1 of you have a flush, or just a big diamond?" A few times he looks as if he's going to fold. I really did not believe he was hollywooding with the nuts. He took almost 3-4 minutes before calling. However, I know he either has a non-nut flush, or a set. He woudlnt' call with just 1 diamond. And i do believe if he had a flush under the nuts, he would have raised UTG +1 bet, because of fear being drawn out by a fourth diamond. So it looks like he has a set, or a very small flush (but unlikely). Now UTG +1 range is a bit wider and could be a set, 2 pair (really), 1 pair with ace diamond or a small flush (unlikely). UTG + 1 has rebought a few times, and has lost his buy-ins with poorly played hands like top pair with weak kicker...none were bad beats, he's just a bad player...but he was visibly on tilt. But he did look comfortable while waiting for us.Taking this all into account, and knowing that hero only has to call $100 more at most, into a $670 pot, you have to call here right? And pot odds dictate that I only have to win 1 out of 6.7 times right? If you took away reads, does anyone think I'm the only one with the flush? -
It wasn't a serious dent, but i lost about 1100 online. I played mostly, 25nl and 50nl, occasionally chased losses on 200nl...however, it was clear that i was out of my league, and should have stuck with playing 10nl or 25nl at most. the thing is, when i was playing online (i probably did about 30 hours total), my live game became too aggressive because of 6max, and i strayed away from what i was doing when i was winning live. so, hence i started a losing streak in live games as well.I'm not sure if i can play both at the same time, and for now, i should stick to either live only or online only. I want to play online and maybe 1 day just play that (due to the convenience and ability to make more $$ quicker), but i know it's going to take me a LOOONG time to get to the level where i make the same amount of $$ playing live. online players are just too good. if i play 10nl or less, it feels like i'm not really playing for anything...and anything more, i'm just outclassed. for now, i'll continue to play live, and maybe i'll try online later in the year (provided i continue to win at live). $2/5 live has been good to me overall. anyways, good luck, and i think you should make that jump.My rate's back down to $19/h in 1-2 & $33/h in 1-3 over 159hours. Lost three or so sessions in a row and had some pretty large intra-session swings. Still won ~$1k in April though, so it was a great month overall. Haven't been happy with the amount of $$ I've been putting at risk each session, and got kind of worn out working 50h/week then playing until 5am on weekends. So I've taken the last few weeks off regular stakes poker, just playing a few small stakes home games/tourneys and getting rest.Also, been able to string together a few weeks in a row winning online in small stakes .05-.10 & .10-.25 (where my talent level probably transfers relative to live competition). Been reading up on LAG play & experimenting with it on small stakes online, with success so far. Playing with aggressive types and developing an image as a rock can be kind of frustrating, so I've been working to get a better understanding of how a good TAG/LAG plays. The goal is to get more comfortable mixing up live play with more aggressive pf raises, while also better defending against the aggressive types. I've made enough at 1-2 to legitimize trying 2-5, and it seems that this sort of development should come before making the jump. Been having fun thinking about the game differently and learning how to take advantage of the style I've played for years. Out of curiosity, what stakes are you playing online? If you're making a serious dent in your bankroll playing online, you've gotta be playing mid-stakes.. Problem being, online mid stakes has some solid players. I'd be careful about risking money playing against that crowd.. Either way, good luck -
Hey Provotrout, how's it been going? Haven't seen an update from you...i had a really rough april, but recovered some losses at the end of the month...my hourly dropped like crazy due to spending hours online and going bust (online that is)...currently at about 175.75 hrs total, for +5895, 33.54 hrly
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thanks....i see what u mean. clearly betting the flop was best.mike matusow harped on this at his deep stacks live event, when you have a good hand you need to avoid trapping too much with it. If he has a good hand here you make a lot more in the long run, you may very well get his stack. If you keep it too small you could get value, but never gets his stack. I mean if it is odvious you have a big hand and that can't be avoided you might as well get as much money in as possible as soon as possible. villains make mistakes. Plus your betting and raising ranges should be balanced enough that a bet/ raise on wet boards shouldn't telegraph the nuts. Just food for thought. I agree with swolys 100% here -
really good point...i guess i need to start looking at things a bit different...i dont want to sound even dumber than i already do, lol, but what rio? isn't it roi? i tried googling it, but i dont get anyting related to poker..Personally I say shove>fold>call, but I can understand and accept someone arguing fold>shove>call. Call is the worst option by far.It's not so much that you'd rather pay 60 and fold if we miss the turn (which is pretty awful in itself) - but we're not getting the expressed odds to call our draw on the flop against a bet and a raise. We have to factor in implied odds to make calling correct, but that presupposes that we'll get paid if we hit our hand. What makes you think that if we hit (either of) our draws on the turn that we will get paid? There will either be 3 flush on board, or a 4 straight. The only way we'd get paid is if we hit the SF and we're up against the Ace high flush. Plus we could hit the ass end of the straight and still lose to AK, so the RIO there sucks too. You say MP2 is laggy, so there's no guarantee he has serious strength here. Take what little FE you might have and shove, and if you get called, pray that it's only by one villain and not both. If you're HU against AK thats bad but not awful, if HU against a set you're fine. Against a higher FD HU you're fine. You just don't want to see BOTH AK and the higher FD. -
i definitely agree here...most of the time, waiting for the turn is the obvious "live" play. but because of the nature of these two opponents who could have nothing in this spot, i wanted them to catch up a bit....although villian 2 should have something at this point..what happened, after i raised, villain 1 folded, later claimed he was just trying to pick up the pot, and villian 2 went all in...he went it with 8/9 off..lol. a fourth heart came on the river...so if i flatted, it would have been terrible, as he wouldn't call a river bet - but that's just being results oriented...but i think if i had raised the flop, villain 1 might have called along with villain 2 (who's never folding here - that's the way he is).say i did raise to 60 on the flop, and get called, and the same turn card comes, completing straights/flush..and it gets checkd to me, which 95% of the time it will....do u bet and how much? a 50% pot bet?Here's the thing to remember about live poker:Live villains expect you to slowplay monsters, because that's what they would do. If you raise the flop, they are almost never going to put you on 5x. If you raise a non-large amount, no flush draw is folding, 67 isn't folding. 8x might, but who knows. The problem with flatting and waiting until the turn to raise is now it does show just how strong you are - especially given which turn card came. Now when you raise you rep a flush or better, and that eliminates a lot of hands that villains will call you with.The typical live player tells you the true strength of his hand on the turn. Avoid the pitfall of waiting till the turn to raise your strong hands, and you will see your winrate soar. -
that makes good sensePerhaps, but it could also represent 10 10 or JJ. Either way, you will still get called by a flush draw, straight draw, and overpairs. If the flop was checked to you, I'd recommend checking behind. But with the action, I think a raise is good. -
so, on the turn, you think i should have raised less?C/c flop, 1-2 pot raise turn, pot riveror POT POT POT POT POT POT POT (like lil john's SHOT song with LMFAO) all the way. Either let the hand develop and hope someone makes something OR try to build the pot early hoping someone has a good enough hand / draw to come along to VALUETOWN -
i would think most of the time, i would raise the flop, if i had, said A/5 or something of that nature...but because i know for sure no one has a 5, isn't raising here scream of a 5?? especially if i'm raising a bet and a call?I would raise to 60 on the flop. One of the players will certainly call and you want to inflate the pot as quickly as possible. You're only going to get action with a flush draw, an over pair, 6 7 and possibly A 8. If they don't have a hand, you're not going to make any money no matter what you do, so raising is best.On the turn, you could bet 150-250 depending on how many callers you get. -
I have pocket 5's in the cutoff. There are about 3 callers in front of me, as well as the blinds, and the button calls as well. 8 players to the flop. UTG leads out for $20 on the flop.....flop - $405 5 8 two heartsutg bets $20 (stack size is over 800. he's a thinking player, and unpredictable...probably one of the better players at the club - he could have anything in this spot)utg + 1 calls $20 (stack is about 350. he's aggressive, and will call and push light. his range when he calls are straight and flush draws, and 8's. He usually has no overpair in this spot)everyone folds to herohero calls $20 (stack is $400. based on what i've told you so far, should i raise here and represent a draw? i'm not sure....)turn - $1009 heartsutg checks (i think he gives up here - he would bet if he hit his flush)utg + 1 bets $20 (weak bet???)hero raises to $120 (i raised the pot roughly, which, in retrospect, maybe a bit too much? i think i priced out any draw that utg might have had)....anyways, i'm just wondering, what's the best way to get value in this spot...
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it is huh?...would you say fold>shove>call? or fold>call>shove? i'm assuming you are saying fold is the best option...i'm not saying call was the best option, but i thought it would be better that shoving...i think i would probably call in that spot, depending on my mood to gamble...but you think shoving is better than calling? and we are pretty deep to call no?And that, shynepo, is a major leak. -
It's 60, not 80...and I'm not saying it's the best play, but I'd rather call the 60, hope original better just calls to get more $$ in the pot, then shove and be crushed. I dont mind losing 60 instead of shoving my whole stack to find out i have little chance to draw out..but that's me..So you don't mind flat calling the $80 and villian 1 shoving and you having to fold? -
what is that exactly?Broke 40k... If only my first wish went better...
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why do u think flatting was terrible? i think it was ok, as well as folding. i think shoving would have been terrible, because you could be (and were, imo) crushed...i know u drew out, but calling $60 isn't as bad as shoving and finding out you are way behind. had sb re-raised the 60 on the flop, then you can fold and lose your 60, which would be bad, but still not as bad as shoving. i think it's close between folding / calling.i really think QQ should have called on the turn, if he felt AK was calling as well...I just flatted the raise from Villain 2. SB also called. Turn was a 2h. UTG checked, MP checked, I shoved, UTG folded QQ, MP called with AK with the ace of hearts. River was a board pair so I got the right guy to fold. I got very lucky.In retrospect, the table was playing pretty snug so I think fold was ok and so was a shove. Flatting was terrible but it was early in the session and I let that be a factor. -
How did you play hand 3?
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value call
i agree, standard call...value call, etc. but, with such a dry flop, no draws really, except for maybe 5/7 or 7/9 for an open ended, what can i really put him on, except an 8 or better? maybe he could be betting a 6....Standard call, re-eval turn
i forgot to include stack sizes, which i have now did....and i agree with you, usually i'm either close to even or way behind, or slightly ahead....but, he could have big cards that missed, and hoping i'm in the same boat....anyways, see above for turn playdepends on the stacks. thats a tough spot though because he has to figure you'll cbet. your either close to even or way behind and hes trying to get money in the pot quick. im almost thinking fold due to his pot sized bet. what do we do on turn unimproved and he fires another big barrel? but if your short stacked ship it. -
whatever happened to posting the results OP?
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i dont mind the call preflop, but i dont like the raise on the flop.as played, firing wouldn't be that bad if u've seen him fold before.
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how do you guys normally deal with the flop donk bet, when you flop a marginal hand..for exampleHero is in cutoff with 10/8 suited clubs. Everyone folds to him, who raises to $20BB is the only caller. BB had defended his blinds more than average. we got involved in a hand heads up earlier, where he raised my turn bet after i barrelled twice (i was the pflop raiser) - he limped, i raised, everyone else folded. flop came, i bet, he called. turn came, i bet, he raised, i folded. - he might've done this with air/semi bluff, so maybe he felt confident against me.....other than that, no other observations/reads.bb stack - $450hero - coversflop - $422 6 8 rainbow, (1 club)BB bets $40hero calls $40turn - $1224 (no flush draw, complete rainbow on board now)BB bets $70the 4 helped 5/7, but that's it. If BB had 6 -4, then he made two pair...or 2-4....but i can't really put him on these hands, even for a better than average % bb defender. does anyone think calling here is ok? or should we fold?does anyone think we should call and re-eval river?
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finally decided to play, after 4 losing live sessions in a row, as well as losing my internet deposit. broke the streak with a 900 win....phew....
$2/5 Live Hand - Do You Ever Fold In This Spot?
in No Limit Texas Hold'em Cash Games
Posted