Lavitz
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Posts posted by Lavitz
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I think reraising this flop is spew because draws, sets, and better kings (or K10 for two pair) all possibly push over our reraise then we're forced with a tough decision.I lead turn and reevaluate if reraised.Bet/fold this river. You must fold if reraised though.If we're behind on the flop... did the turn really change anything?If we conceeded that we were behind to the flop raise (which I know we aren't necessarily), then the only hands we beat now are AA and T3, both of which are unlikely.....So... my question... If we think we're ahead on the flop, we should either be reraising the flop, or leading the turn, correct? -
Never limp AA in this spot. Do it again and I'll eat your firstborn.As played river is fold.
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Toughie. I like 4 betting button and then maybe folding but as played probably call. Button realizes if he cold calls you probably hang around so he might be pushing for isolation. Plus its low stakes so I expect 1010-QQ and AK a lot. Throw in the occasional mini pocket pair and you got yourself an +EV call.
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I brought that up in my post. I think mainly he is a donkey and had no purpose with that bet. While most players value bet half pot, I can see his line of thinking focusing around trying to win the pot cheaply and then pushing in a desperate move because we checked river which could be a scare card for us. Also people build pots with draws and he could've had an OESD.If there was a flush draw on the flop that went unfilled this would be a definite call. If we bet river and he pushed it would be an easy fold. As played and with that board I think its a tough call. I like betting river but when we check we have to catch the bluff WE CREATED. Why else on earth would we check top two against a donk who's hand range is massive? We WANT to snap off a bluff. It's too bad he pushed but I still think calling is right play.If this is TJ or air, why reopen the action on the turn for so little $ ? -
Andddd I'm calling. If he was horrible enough to bet bottom pair then call a check raise so be it. Plus, by checking river you massively underep your hand. This is usually 10J or air and sometimes an ace. Half pot turn bet seems like value but villians like this do idiotic things. If you bet river and he pushed we'd have a real problem on our hands.
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I really don't think you should be on 4th/5th level thinking against these kinds of players, and you should almost never be re-re-raising on a bluff. There are numerous reasons for this. One is that you're playing at low limits so you're going to have a real hard time getting people to lay down big hand. They won't be beyond first/second level thinking. Also, the players playing in this small of a game probably aren't the best so they're not going to make hero laydowns for $50 pots. Another reason is that if you're putting in any kind of rereraise bluff then not only does the villian have a big hand to be reraising you in the first place, but it will be incorrect usually for him to fold because after his reraise then your further reraise, there is a massive amount of money in the pot, giving him great odds usually. "Small ball" usually refers to tourney but as for this cash game I'd assume the players you're referring to play tight/passive and emphasize pot control. If that is the case then they are rarely reraising you without a stellar hand so I recommend staying away from the crazy bluffs. As for my advice on how to play them? Use position and raise their limps constantly. C-Bet them almost always and if it appears they're weak, fire the second barrel on the turn. Also, bet scare cards if they call your original bet on a rags board. If an A or K shows up after you c-bet a 10 high flop then fire again. If you think you have them dominated and they have little chance for improvement, fire down 2/3 pot or 1/2 pot instead of full pot because they will be much more likely to call. If they show aggression or interest in a pot then get out if you don't have a strong hand. These kinds of players aren't looking to play big pots without big hands.I'm new to the forums; I'm an 18 year old poker player from London, UK. I don't play professionally, but am a profitable player. I play games online (Ultimate Bet and Full Tilt), at some London card clubs as well as at 2 home games. One of these home games in particular has proven difficult to handle. This table tends to play 5 to 7 handed and congregates fairly regularly in the week. It's a £20 max buy-in NLHE ring game with £0.10/0.20 blinds (that roughly comes to $0.40/$80); I go there mainly for the good company, especially as I usually play for stakes double that. There are 2 regulars at this home game who are great practitioners of small ball, and I was wondering how I should approach playing them. I've been lurking at these forums for a while, and there seem to be some good poker theorists here whose advice I'd appreciate - despite the fact that there are also a great many who cause me to shake my head dismissively with the following facial expression:
.One answer I don't want is, play ABC poker and try and trap them with the goodies. Unfortunately, as someone who knows much about the effective use of small ball, they can slither out of traps very easily without much damage. The only path I see is to constantly play back at them and end up on 4th/5th level thinking...it's what I'm doing at the moment but it's very hard to consistently re-re-raise on a bluff. I generally try and join them in feasting on the others, but it can get quite tiring. This is easily the toughest table I play at; I find the internet is the easiest feeding ground since a lot of tables feature a mixture of fish and rocks - which is great if you're playing small ball since you can overcome both.Well, thanks for your time and hopefully I can get a nice concise 'How to Play Back at Small Ball' guide. -
To be honest I hadn't seen him play a big hand yet at this current table and most of my hands with him were from another session. He probably views me as LAG and is bearing the brunt of my button raises.Could this point be the a possible key in disseminating a possible range of hands that the villain might defend with from the sb? 2nd, how did he play those "too many hands" post flop? -
Really no read on villian. He seemed to be playing too many hands out of position to raises preflop. I think his preflop range is quite large here. He's like 35/15/2 over small sample (like 60ish hands). I was multi-tabling and it looked like I tanked on turn call so I'm not sure if he took that as weakness. River was confusing because it just seemed like a stupid way to play the nuts. The next best spade he could have besides ace is 10
Full Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $3/$66 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $1065.30UTG+1: $588CO: $487.80Hero: $750SB: $599.10BB: $609Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with K 
K 
3 folds, Hero raises to $21, SB calls, BB folds.Flop: 6 J 8 ($48, 2 players)SB checks, Hero bets $36, SB calls.Turn: Q ($120, 2 players)SB bets $100, Hero calls.River: A ($320, 2 players)SB is all-in $442.1, Hero pukes? -
I'd prolly call turn, we're getting implied odds against a bad player if we hit. I don't mind reraising either but we have to call the push for certain.Also, raise that up preflop. Don't limp 6 max, almost ever.
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Someone who plays 67/x/x is a horrible player, plain and simple. They are the WORST players to pull a bet/fold against because they will push over our bets and do stupid things with weaker hands because they DONT think and just play their own cards. If we raise flop, we have to call a shove. Folding after we raise is incorrect and a major flaw, especially given odds and a donkey's potential hand range.The problem with calling and revaluating turn (to see if he bets again) is that he's betting turn no matter what. If he's on a draw and a blank comes he's going to bet anyways. If hes on a hand we're ahead of like TP or 2nd pair or air, hes going to bet turn because he is a BAD player and doesn't realize he ISN'T ahead and is really turning his TP/2nd pair into a bluff. IF we call and a blank rolls off then we need to go with the hand because he isn't slowing down in most cases, whether he has a draw/set/air/TP/whatever. Bad players do dumb things and seeing 67% of flops is almost as bad as it gets.
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Bet 2 bucks and if he calls and checks river then fire 1/2 or 2/3 pot again.
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Well played.
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I've seen people make more idiotic plays with sets/two pairs. I don't think he has one here but I still think there is a chance (probably around 5%) that he does and that should somewhat influence our decision.I can't believe this is a set or two pair, and if he has air then raising or calling are the same. -
You have to fold to this turn overbet.Also, reraise JJ preflop. I don't mind cold calling against aggro donk but this is not the ideal flop for you so don't go broke on it to a hand like KJ. You have to be willing to get away from it.
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My problem with shoving is that he thought his hand was good on flop and now he donks turn again which means he probably still thinks it's good. Shoving might make him lay down a king and it might not, but now there's more money in so if he thought his K was good on flop then I don't see how he bets potish and has an easy time letting go.Also, 66 and 44 are in his range and we don't really wanna be pushing into those. If he genuinely tanked on flop then I think he doesn't show up with these much but still a possibility.Probably just call turn.Edit: You also mention he holds onto overpairs long after it's obvious he's beat. So he's basically a bit of a calling station and that is a prime example why we shouldn't push turn.You don't think I fold a better hand a good majority of the time, by shoving? -
I know they're more unlikely but I think you have to add in other hands besides flushes because a small percentage of the time this will be air/misplayed set/misplayed 2 pair.
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Fold river.
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Lol this is never JJ. You being shortstacked=call.
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If we think he is tilting I don't mind the play because he might be getting retarded with A7 or 89 or a variety of straight draws. He also might be getting cute because its BvB. Plus his aggression is super high and the way he played the JQ hand was highly idiotic. Its a high variance play one way or another because if we're ahead he probaby has overs/draw. I can go either way with this. If we're gonna find a fold though I suggest folding to his original reraise because I think folding once he 4bets our 3 bet is incorrect because it doesn't necessarily mean he has a monster and now we're getting odds to go up against what could be a draw/weaker 8/air, etc....
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At least you recognize what you did wrong. Like I said, he checks behind that river because there's really no value to be extracted from his point of view and if he gets c/r he has to find a tough fold. Usually just play your big hands straightforward and let people make mistakes with 2nd best hands.I don't mind the c/f and I can even see times where the c/r would be an option, (I think I am check/folding this flop 60%, leading 35%, c/r 5%). However I will never ever never c/c this flop. Thats what we call in the business spewing. ANYWAYS.I think this is the most frustrating hand I have played in a LONG time. I've said it once and I'll say it again, when a villain min reraises, they have it. Always. I needed to shove the turn.As played, I thought for a long time, took a shot of FPS, and smooth called, planing on check/raising the river (this is a bad idea on so many levels). River came a disgusting 8 to pair the board, I went into c/c mode, but he checked behind and flipped up A9. ewwwwwwww. I left $300 sitting on the table. I won a decent pot, but I can not get this hand out of my mind. I was seeing if there was any reasonable chance that maybe my play wasn't 100% awful, but definitely does not look the case. Isuckaments. -
If flop was rainbow I think this is a easy fold but since there is a flush draw and getting decent odds we have to call.
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You said only a 9 can proceed with the hand but then say if he has a set he's likely not folding? Whatever you meant, I personally have seen plenty of people call raises/pushes with sets here after slowplaying them on the flop. It's because generally they're bad players and they shouldn't be slowplaying sets on flops like that in the first place.Also, a 9 might not shove the river if the board pairs when he is checked too. Why? Because the only hands that are calling any bet on that board once it pairs are full houses, better straights, or hands he splits with (other 9's).Also, this is 6 handed and a 9 is very much in his range. If we call we basically screw ourselves on the river because we act first and if we check, he checks anything but a 9 on a non paired board and bets his house if the board pairs. If WE bet river he folds sets unless board pairs and even if he has a 9 and the board doesn't pair he calls in most cases instead of pushing over our bet(once again for same reason, anything that calls his push he splits with or loses too).We have to raise turn.Smooth call or min-raise, and get more action on the river. Here's why:Like everyone else said, only a 9 can proceed with the hand if you shove, and a nine is shoving almost any river anyway, so we'll be ready and waiting for him there. But I don't think this is a nine. He didn't raise $14 PF with a nine unless it's a pair of nines, and if that's the case, we just laid a nasty on him. The only hand that will beat us on the river that he could be holding that we're folding out by shoving this turn is two pair, and two pair only has 4 outs anyway. We don't need to shovel to kill/dodge a hand htat's looking for four outs. Conversely, if he has a set, he's likely not folding the turn; likewise we aren't folding our straight on the river even if the board pairs, so pushing to protect only protects us against two pair, unlikely with the PF raise, and the odds of the hand getting ahead of us is a distant threat anyway.Smooth call or min raise. -
Pushaments. He is never folding a smaller flush and for what he has invested he might even call with other random crap. I think he has nut flush a good amount of time but I think he has smaller flush/set/two pair/air enough for a push to be profitable. While he isn't calling with air obviously, he may not be able to get away from anything else he idiotically slowplayed and is never ever laying down a smaller flush here with what he has invested.
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I'm more worried about 55 and KQ then the flush. He almost never has the flush here but pulls out KQ a lot, AK sometimes and 55 sometimes.Hate calling but it's only half pot so I think we have to call. Turn bet is too weak, like you said.
Could I Get Away From This?
in No Limit Texas Hold'em Cash Games
Posted
Open fold turn because he can never have 55-QQ or air.Seriously though, just keep playing solid poker. I am never folding this. I could probably be 300BB deep and have a hard time laying this down.