Lavitz
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Posts posted by Lavitz
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Fold if he reraised? Um....that would probably be an extremely poor fold. He could very well have you beat with pocket 8s (unlikely) or A8 (more likely). However, if you give up this pot and fold then you're a timid mouse. Theres a large group of hands we still beat, such as any ace without and 8 or 4. He obviously doesnt have AA or he would raise pre-flop(unless hes the sort of player who likes getting cute with these sorts of hands).Maybe he has A10 or AJ and figures youre on a steal. Personally, if I'm heads up with an opponent and I have one of the two remaining aces with a decent kicker, im feeling good. Maybe he went too far ahead of himself and overbet his hand based on this.You should probably call down and if youre beat by A8, so be it. But if you fold, then you're inviting people to take your chips later on when they find out youll call raises pre-flop, raise the flop, reraise the turn and then fold. This is a mouse move and anyone with any sort of reading will start bullying you, making your timid style useless unless you pick up a monster. (Note that if you're folding a boat using both hole cards in this situation than the "monster" better be quads or higher because imo this hand IS a monster and should be played like one, if a bit cautious)he may very well have aces full of 8's or (far less likely) aces full of 4's.some might say to re-raise here to see where you are in the hand. though your opponent may possibly have AK, AQ, AJ, etc. he may not necessarily have the boat *yet*.personally, i'd probably re-raise and fold if he re-raised me after that. if he only called he COULD be slow playing his aces full, but he more probably just has trips. of course if this is the case, he still has outs on the river, but not a lot (7). if another 8 comes on the river id be out of the hand faster than a mexican prostitute out of a dark alley at 11 pm.another option is just calling him down to the river, but im not sure if that's necessarily a better strategy.if he had AA, well then of course you're screwed either way
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Yes that was indeed quite the fishyness. Especially pre-flop. But hey, your loose/stupid calls paid off big time.
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His reraise screams strength pre-flop. I'd have to fold, as tight as it seems, unless opponent is a maniac. best possible situation is he has AK but KK or AA seems more likely.
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"I would say you give way too limited of a range of 3-betting hands..for this stakes..players do crazy things "You cant use this as an excuse for poor calling/raising. Just because it is low limits doesnt mean every opponent is a maniac/fish. If anything, they play more straightforward and simple, such as his 3-bet pre-flop, indicating a strong hand. True, some opponents will reraise with poor hands, but what hand exacly do you have beat, besides a low pocket pair?AJ AK AA KK QQ 1010 all have you beat. Even marginal/poor raising hands have you beat (K10,Q10,K9,KJ,KQ)"What about raising the flop to protect against the flush or str8 draws...mp3 might have"Why protect against these draws when you yourself are probably well behind in the hand against the BB? Whether he hits his draw and beats you or he doesnt and the BB beats you, you're still beat and youd still be putting unnecessary bets into the pot. Unless you have incredible reads on both opponents and somehow you know that the BB is bluffing (unlikely)or on a low pocket pair (also unlikely) and that the other player is defintley on a draw, there's no reason to jam.holy cow.I'm honored to be stickied.Daniel, you choose and type fast...anyway..defending the play..or at least what I thought at the time...I would say you give way too limited of a range of 3-betting hands..for this stakes..players do crazy things (just look at me)given it was 3-way..throw in 77-TT, AQ-A10/A7s....KQ-K9s...some never raise..some raise silly stufffor what it's worthWhat about raising the flop to protect against the flush or str8 draws...mp3 might haveEven getting 3-bet on the flop doesn't make it 90% certain...Calling down a 10BB then 12BB pot is wrong?I was thinking wa/wb...the str8 and flush draws notwithstanding..but I wasn't going to raise again.what makes anyone so sure I'm beat? 90% of the time.MP3 was a fish, BB was aggress..but only based on about 20 Pt hands..so assume no read, I did.maybe I'm a fish...I'll keep reading these and postingedit:Almost forgot..thanks to all for the critiques once again. 8) -
Well you wouldn't be the only one. After he posts the common reply seems to go along with "Yea I agree 100% with Daniel...I would do this and this because this and this but really I'm only regurgitating what he said in his post and I'm agreeing with him because he is the pro" If you check every single one of his posts, theres always at least two posters who agree right afterwards. One of these times DN should post the wrong advice purposely, just to see how many mindless people agree.I think I am going to make a habit of posting after daniel in each thread and then agree with him as though I thought the same thing all long. (sw) -
If hes capping on the turn and river, he probably has a jack. I would jam it if the 3 cards were lower then a 7, maybe 666, 555, etc...but a Jack is a very playable card. People just love to play 10J,JQ,JK,JA on these limits. I would slow down and call his 3-bet on the turn and call his bet on the river. Yes, it's tight, but unless this guy is a maniac, why's he capping when we're coming right back at him? If he was some sort of loose/agressive donkey then, yes, I would cap.
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Well the check on the turn was extrmely fishy. A lot of people will check after hitting their hand in no-limit. If he was bluffing he would be firing out the turn and if he didn't have the flush he would probably still fire out to see if that was what he was up against. You could probably fold this.
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Bet/call? With three other people in the hand, theres likely to be someone who chased down the flush from the start. Check/call or check/fold if theres a reraise or two ahead of you.
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Save yourself a bet on the river, I doubt he's folding and it completed a straight draw which he could have easily been fishing for.
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Well, true they may call you down with anything. That means, however, that the majority of time theyre missing their draws or you have them outkicked. The only reason that line holds any reasoning is because sometimes theyll flop two pair/some insane boat/or catch their flush/straight. Of course the good players remember this and then they moan and complain and it stays with them. We seem to forget all the times when the odds hold up.
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NL is all about folding when you're behind. He raised to 12XBB, which basically means hes going to bet the rest of the hand hard. You're going to miss your flop the majority of the time and I can guarantee he's not checking the flop, unless he hits a monster. I fold this pre-flop in a heartbeat. I guess once the flop came ten-high, youre holding onto it, but the truth is he's probably still ahead. The turn saved you most likely, unless opponent is loose and would pull this stunt with AK/AQ, in which case you were ahead on the flop. Either way, fold pre-flop, no need to get involved with such a marginal hand.
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So....you need bad cards to beat good players?
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I'd cap the flop, the BB raised and CO 3-bet, so it's unlikely youre scaring either away with a cap before the turn. CO could have 1010 or 22, but he'd probably raise pre-flop with 1010. More likely has an ace, maybe A2 or A8 and caught his two pair on turn. It's four handed so this hand is pretty powerful before and after the flop. I like the quote from Anchorman too.
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Even against a stronger player, you still have all the high pocket pairs beat on the flop, the strength of the player should have no bearing with a bet on that flop. AK and AA are the only hands that have you beat on the flop. Its much more likely that he has KK,QQ,or AQ. Only when he raised you was it evident that perhaps you were behind,but even then he might be reraising with QQ or KK. The turn just supported this, as now KK would have you beat also.Against a stronger player, I'd be checking it. I wanted to know if I was ahead or not though. I figured he'd be calling me down with KK, QQ anyways, he couldn't let go of his big pairs even when an overcard hit.*sigh 60 big bet downswings suck. -
I wouldn't raise the river with the possible flush on board. I hope you did reraise this pre-flop though.
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I like the bet on the flop, it gives you information and if the raiser has some kind of suited connectors, it prevents him from seeing a free card which could give him a backdoor straight/flush.Nobody likes leading this flop? I kind of wanted to figure out where I was on the flop, which is the reason for betting out. Check-calling it all the way down is an alternative way to play it though. I don't think it makes a huge difference here though. -
OP said he was passive. Also, cold-calling induces furthur bluffs/semi bluffs while reraising the turn might cause the raiser to fold his hand if he was weak or on a bluff, thus ultimately losing a river bet or two.Let me ask this...if he boated up on the river, is there a reason that he didn't raise the turn? -
I dont think it's appropriate to go all-in in that situation. The pot really isnt worth the risk and a lot of people tend to play any Ace-rag,especially in loose home games.
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I'm not concerned with the free card, as they are far behind if that indeed is the case. However, I am concerned that if you 3-bet you're scaring him away from betting the turn with QQ or KK. A three-bet is simply going to make the pot more expensive for you if he has the goods,because hes going to cap and bet the turn anyways, or scare him away from furthur betting if he doesnt.This hand is pretty much way ahead or way behind, which is standard. Given the action, I was 50/50 on whether I was good or not. I will say that this player probably saved me a couple bets tonight by playing his hands the way he did. I slow down on this hand, because the only hand he might pay me off with is a pocket pair.I was considering check-raising the flop, but I think betting out gave me more information as to how strong I was. I think 3 betting the flop is chip spewing in a hand like this. Sure, you might give QQ or KK a free card once in a while, when they check behind on the turn after raising the flop, but this is one of those situations where a free card won't hurt you that much considering they'd only have 2 outs to improve and your also not sure where your at in the hand either. -
Most opponents do, for the most part, play logically,or in some sort of pattern. Three-betting pre-flop, even by donkeys, usually indicates an ace or high pocket pair.The best you can hope for is a split pot, so there is no reason to raise at any point.That's still only two hands that beat you :PI think you're assuming all your opponents play logically aseem -
My thoughts exactly. Or a flopped set.depending on the limit AJ with the A of hearts is a major possibility -
His three-bet preflop indicates he may well have KK or the ace. I don't think he'd be raising the turn without the ace,queen,or KK. The only hands he would be getting called with are hands that have him beat. Same with river, he could have easily checked for free showdown. He thinks he has the hand won, or at least a split pot. Betting with JJ or lower is just a poor play by the villian and I don't think I can raise unless I know hes a weak player.Three bet the turn? Anyone? Anyone? Beuller? Beuller?Seriously, why not? Case Ace and KK are the only hands that beat you here, and with a button-three bet I sense a lot of possibilities -
If you three-bet the flop, do you check the turn? Because if you three-bet and don't lead out, you're potentially forfeiting a bet on the turn to a KK or QQ who intends on calling down but isn't betting out now. If anything, youre going to scare away a hand you have beat, or get reraised by a hand that has you murdered.I'm probably three betting the flop before I call it downYou'd be surprised how many times they overplay KK or QQ even on an ace flop by raising on the flop -
Well he three-bet you pre-flop which can indicate AK AA or KK. The bad news is all three have you beat. I wouldn't get agressive here, check/calling is probably the best action on turn and river. I doubt he's bluffing and the only legitimate hands you have beat are AJ, QQ-99. However, I doubt he would 3bet with AJ and he kept firing away despite the ace, then king.There are no legitimate draws he can be raising with and hed probably take a free showdown if he had a pocket pair lower then kings, instead of betting.Unless he's a maniac, you're probably beat.
big slick, opinions? (nl)
in General Strategy
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