You didn't refute my statement, you backed it up. You're right, making larger pre flop raises will probably turn more profit when they usually don't hit, but that doesn't change the fact that most people want to see the flop and will fold when they don't hit. That's true, and it's not dumb. Besides, I don't always min-raise pre flop, when the blinds were lower compared to stack sizes i usually do 2-3x BB, when they get higher and a lot of the short stacks will still call off 2x BB and drop their hands on the flop, where as if you make them call 3-4x the BB they might just feel commited and pus