I was getting pretty deep into a PLO Tourney on Saturday night, and the following hand came up. I had won some big pots relatively recently, and my opponent was playing super aggressively. Anyway, I am interested in how others would have responded to this bet on the river. I will post the hand result after I get a few responses. Thanks!

PokerStars Game #4713281846: Tournament #23113834, $5.00+$0.50 Omaha Pot Limit -
Level VIII (200/400) - 2006/04/22 - 23:17:30 (ET)
Table '23113834 5' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: NevadaRick (3670 in chips)
Seat 2: KennyJ37 (5020 in chips)
Seat 3: pmk-one (22082 in chips)
Seat 4: scraps32 (15870 in chips)
Seat 5: byxbeer (23417 in chips)
Seat 6: donkslayer (4595 in chips)
Seat 7: callmestew21 (31826 in chips)
Seat 8: 151burbon (1537 in chips)
Seat 9: hors-mucked (23180 in chips)
hors-mucked: posts small blind 200
NevadaRick: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to pmk-one [Jc 8s Kc Ts]
KennyJ37: folds
pmk-one: calls 400
scraps32: folds
byxbeer: folds
donkslayer: folds
callmestew21: calls 400
151burbon: folds
hors-mucked: calls 200
NevadaRick: checks
*** FLOP *** [Kh Jd 6s]
hors-mucked: checks
NevadaRick: checks
pmk-one: bets 800
callmestew21: calls 800
byxbeer said, "uh oh stew, some guy is only 500 behind you for the lead"
hors-mucked: calls 800
NevadaRick: folds
*** TURN *** [Kh Jd 6s] [3c]
callmestew21 said, "i know i played with him at my 1st table"
hors-mucked: checks
pmk-one: bets 2400
callmestew21: calls 2400
hors-mucked: folds
*** RIVER *** [Kh Jd 6s 3c] [6h]
pmk-one: checks
callmestew21: bets 5000

Dealt to pmk-one [Jc 8s Kc Ts]
KennyJ37: folds
pmk-one: calls 400

Stopped reading about there.

Good luck.

Check-call the river to induce bluff or whatever. I am feeling your pain for your 2 pairs being counterfeited by AA.

But seriously you should fold preflop.

That wasn't this donkslayer, btw. I'd have more chips. Plus, Pokerstars is rigged.

Thanks for your non-response, although it does raise some questions: do you play the same in a tournament as in a cash game? Additionally, does the size of your chip stack inform the hands you will play? Anyway, here's what happened:

pmk-one: calls 5000
*** SHOW DOWN ***
callmestew21: shows [Ad 4s 8c Kd] (two pair, Kings and Sixes)
pmk-one: shows [Jc 8s Kc Ts] (two pair, Kings and Jacks)
pmk-one collected 18800 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 18800 | Rake 0
Board [Kh Jd 6s 3c 6h]
Seat 1: NevadaRick (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: KennyJ37 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: pmk-one showed [Jc 8s Kc Ts] and won (18800) with two pair, Kings and Jacks
Seat 4: scraps32 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: byxbeer folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: donkslayer folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: callmestew21 showed [Ad 4s 8c Kd] and lost with two pair, Kings and Sixes
Seat 8: 151burbon (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: hors-mucked (small blind) folded on the Turn

As mentioned before, this guy was playing very loose and I had a pretty good sense he didn't have it. Not that result matters, but your sarcasm merits mentioning that I went on to win this tournament.

PS: If I was looking for this type of response, I would have simply posted in general.

you are OOP with a lousy hand.
I don't play PLO..but that's pretty clear to a chimp.

In tourneys wasting 400 makes no sense.

Ummmm, ok. Believe me (or don't), I understand PLO starting hand requirements just fine. It honestly has nothing to do with the question above.

dissagree... two suited and connecting, 3 broadway for the min... seems reasonable. oop or not, if you can play it for the min....

congrats on the win... tough call on the riv... not sure if I could unless he was, as you say, over the top aggressive... but on-line those are the guys that will play out a hand with a naked 33 in it.

Also, the guy that said it would be clear to a chimp... yep, he doesnt play PLO.

so call preflop ok?

hmm.

Well.. ok...I'm willing to learn.

Nice hand. Against what you said was an overly aggressive player, the river seems like a pretty easy call. It's not too likely that he has a hand that beats you that wouldn't show any strength before the river.

I would think that whether you play this starting hand or not depends on the table. If there's a good chance of a raise behind you from a big stack, you should fold in early position, but if you think you can get in for cheap, it's not a bad hand by any means.

Anyway, here's what happened:

Who cares?

Limping OOP in a PLO tournamnet is just stupid. If you'd played it in for raise intending to lead most flops there'd be something to talk about. Playing this junk out of position for no raise with your current M is just a donkey move plain and simple.

Tornaments the same as cash games, no. Is this play stupid in both given stack depth relative to the current blinds? Yeah. Sorry. What more do you want me to say?

good luck.

You are really a sour person, and it's too bad you are making the strat forums such a nasty place. I am glad that poker, and omaha in particular, is such a black & white thing for you. If you don't want to consider the question at issue, why not just move on?

You are really a sour person, and it's too bad you are making the strat forums such a nasty place. I am glad that poker, and omaha in particular, is such a black & white thing for you.

I'm glad that you're one of the many players who will let ego get in the way of getting better. Without guys like you I'd have no one to make money from.

good luck.

If that's what you were trying to do, that would be fine. Instead, you just provided an insipid, convenient response. For example, even though it is non-responsive to the question asked, if you were actually interested in being helpful, why not explain why the hand will not do well (would it be better if you replaced the eight with a nine? the hand was also double suited and the four cards do work together, particularly on a medium flop.)?

If your cursory response is your idea about helping someone improve, then good luck to you. And believe me, this has nothing to do with ego: it was a simple question about whether to make a call on the river which in all your brilliance you chose not to read and attempted to derail. Thanks "teach"

You are really a sour person, and it's too bad you are making the strat forums such a nasty place.

No and no.

Many poker players come to defend their dignity instead of their strategy discussions/money. Dignity costs money.

Sometimes the strategy discussions are just like playing a hand of poker.

hmm..

maybe I"m not so stupid.
I just didn't like our pos with this hand in this situation

AS far as river, sorry, I'm not qualified to opine on that.
It's not that I don't want to help.
But I don' play enough PLO to know what hands are good at showdown often enough to call.

Smash's strat posts = $$$ in my pocket.

If only I could quit playing tournies. Yes, I'm a sucker.

If Smash stops posting, I'll personally drive to Boston and choke him.

I definitely was not trying to get indignant or defensive about this starting hand, I was just hoping to get some straightforward advice on the play at the river. And I actually appreciated Smash's advice in the later post; the way I read it, he isn't saying this hand is absolutely unplayable but, if you are going to play OOP, raise it (particularly when you have a lot of chips).

Anyway, my apologies if I came off defensive. I just thought we were getting off on a tangent I wasn't interested in on this particular hand. I am the first to admit I have a world to learn in this game!

I'm not a tournament PLO expert, but I'm definately playing this hand in my 3-6 game. I might come in for a raise. It has a lot of potential, especially with backdoor draws. You have to call on the river though. I'd say he went busto with a draw at least 1/3 of the time. If I missed my draw and you checked to me, I'd bet here too.
Back to the starting hand: If you can outplay your opponents do it. If not, possition is tough to overcome in this game.

One thing I don't get is why we didn't just pot the flop here. It seems like we're making it way too easy for weak draws to stick around in a spot where we're very likely ahead.

As for the PF call, I've started playing a lot tighter starting hands in EP/MP, and I think it's improved my game a lot. You just pick up so many more small pots in late position, and it also becomes a lot easier to bluff the pot on the river when the flush hits and you missed your wrap.

I am also not a PLO expert, but I have been playing a lot recently and trying to improve my game. I would fold preflop.

That said, I would fold to the river as well.