Anyone play this differently?

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha/8, $2 BB (9 handed) converter

BB ($199.55)
UTG ($169.70)
UTG+1 ($453.75)
MP1 ($201.10)
MP2 ($106.45)
Hero ($218.40)
CO ($115.75)
Button ($85.85)
SB ($108.40)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with [Qs], [Ac], [4c], [4d].
UTG calls $2, 3 folds, UTG calls $4, Hero calls $4, Button calls $4.

Flop: ($26) [9s], [Jh], [4s] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $22, Button folds, SB folds, UTG calls $22.

Turn: ($70) [6h] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $67, UTG calls $67.

River: ($204) [7d] (2 players)
UTG bets $74.7 (All-In), Hero calls $74.70.

Final Pot: $353.40

Results below:
UTG has 8s As 5d 2d (Low: 7, 6, 4, 2, A | High: straight, nine high).
Hero has Qs Ac 4c 4d (High: three of a kind, fours).
Outcome: UTG wins $353.40.

pretty aggressive with just bottom set, i maybe bet only 30-35 on the turn and fold the river, all you can beat on the river is a naked low, and i doubt he's betting that much with only A2.

It's legitimate that he could have an overset, or a str8, and since you have no low protection i dont think you can call that bet.

Thanks for the comments, Pretoria.

I put him on a low draw and flush draw (JJ or 99 would probably have played back). I didn't even see the str8 on the river until it was too late :cry:

I checked it out on 2 dimes and it looks like I was ahead all the way (even pre-flop).....until the river.

You got so much money in before the river that it's a rough fold by the river...but I think it's clear you got outdrawn. Tough beat.

I hate these kinds of hands. You limp pre-flop with a modiocre starting hand. Someone raises behind you, but it's only 2 bbs more for you to call so you do. Seems reasonable, let's see a flop. You flop bottom set and bet the pot probably expecting to win the pot right there. Sounds good. Unfortunately, you get a caller and another low card hits on the turn. UTG checks it to you and your set is probably still good, but now you have to defend you hand against a low draw and other draws. So you bet the pot again to apply the heat a drawing hand. Makes sense. Then the river card completes many possible draws and you lose the hand. Each step seems logical, yet you lost your stack in a situation that seems so avoidable. I know the feeling. FWIW, I would have played the hand the same way and lost my stack as well. Tough river.

I know I would probably have played the same. But we all should learn by now that a non-top set against a flop that provides str8 and flush draw possibilities, and we don't have a low redraw (a runner runner low completed about 30% of the time!), then we need to proceed with caution.

The real question is, what should we do next time with the similar situations?

Do we still pot the flop given our position? What about if someone holds a middle set 99 and keeps calling? Can we really find out where we're at?

I say next time when we are against 3 villains, even we have position advantage, we still check fold this trouble hand (yeah, weak-tight, whatever....), one of them is likely to have some drawing hands. Against 1 villain, that's another story.

Also, [Qs], [Ac], [4c], [4d] is a trouble hand preflop already. I would like to see the board with 2 clubs or 23, that's my preflop goal with this hand.

I don't think check-folding the flop is the answer. We give up too much if we check-fold this every time. It's only four-handed on the flop, and bottom set is ahead of a lot of hands here. Only a higher set or a combination of hands such as top two-pair + straight draw + flush draw have us in bad shape. That's not enough to justify a check-fold approach IMO. The EV we lose through making bad folds is just as bad as the EV lost through bad bets/call, it's just that the former often goes unnoticed.

So I think the flop bet is good. Heads-up on the turn, it's hard see any other action than a pot bet. Villain checked to us, and unless he's playing particularly sneaky, he probably is still drawing and wants to see a cheap river. Pot it.

Honestly, I think the river call is the closest decision in the hand. On the river, hero now has a one-way non-nut hand. Villain pushes his remaining stack into the pot offering hero about 1.9:1 on a call (Hero must call $74.70 to likely win half or $139). Under what if any circumstances can hero fold the river?

I don't like playing that aggressively unless I have low protection, which we didn't have in this hand. I would have folded the river, don't know if that's weak/tight but I'm not a fan of just bottom set on that board.

Too bad your [4c] wasn't the [4h], that A4c probably made you put in that first 2 dollars, otherwise the hand speaks for itself, UTG had a great chase hand - the kind you hope to punish. you potted him twice while leading so no one can take away from your play that way.

I feel for ya. unlucky hurts.