***** Hand History for Game 2759104269 *****
$25 PL Omaha Hi/Lo - Friday, September 23, 00:52:28 EDT 2005
Table Table 37217 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 4: cooknpoker ( $15.20 )
Seat 5: marlow2 ( $108.27 )
Seat 8: Abbaddabba ( $25 )
Seat 2: AmesPotter ( $20.74 )
Seat 1: louwagie22 ( $51.13 )
Seat 3: franx77 ( $0 )
Seat 10: mrwong10 ( $13.27 )
Seat 7: bigguylhp1 ( $26.68 )
Seat 9: h00sierm0n ( $24.30 )
Seat 6: lakosa ( $25.80 )
mrwong10 posts small blind [$0.10].
AmesPotter posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Abbaddabba [ Ad 2h Ah 3d ]
>You have options at Table 36902 Table!.
cooknpoker folds.
marlow2 folds.
lakosa calls [$0.25].
bigguylhp1 calls [$0.25].
Abbaddabba raises [$1.35].
h00sierm0n calls [$1.35].
mrwong10 folds.
AmesPotter calls [$1.10].
>You have options at Table 37135 Table!.
lakosa calls [$1.10].
bigguylhp1 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ts, 7d, 4h ]
AmesPotter checks.
lakosa checks.
Abbaddabba bets [$5.50].
h00sierm0n folds.
AmesPotter folds.
lakosa raises [$22].
Abbaddabba folds.
>You have options at Table 36902 Table!.
lakosa does not show cards.
lakosa wins $32.45


... and it went all wrong.

Im having problems with the convertor, if someone could let me know what the trick is with hi low, it'd be a help.

Is there anything i should be doing differently? Is my hand too strong to fold on this flop to someone who's pot raise is basically his all in?

Since he's basically all-in, you're getting 2-1 on your money to get to showdown if you call, so I think it's an easy call. The only hands that you have worse odds than that against (I think) are a set and an A2. You might even be the favorite, if he's betting two-pair, a draw, or a naked A2.

How deep does his stack have to be before this is a fold?

You should not have come betting out on this flop, as your worst nightmare occured, it was potted back to you. Check this flop the majority of the time I believe against standard opponents.

You have two backdoor flush draws, a small backdoor straight draw, plus the nut low. You are probably goint to tie for low, UNLESS the guy doesn't have counterfeight protection.

I don't think this was a fold... 8)

I don't think I could ever lay this down here: for low you are only in bad shape against A23 - and if he has that, great! You have the real top pair, with a draw to 2 pair and nut low, and a draw to top set.

If he has A2XX where X=T, 7 or 4 then so be it, I am probably going to lose half my stack.

If the flop only had 1 low card, then that's a different story.

If i dont make my low draw, there's a good chance im drawing to two cards plus the value the backdoor draws give me (which is very small) to win anything at all, and if i do make the low, it's probably being quartered. I cant imagine him making this move on the flop without a set (or top two) and probably the nut low draw, or strong low draw at the very least.

I can't imagine why i wouldnt want to pot the flop when it was checked to me though.

Of those giving advice - do you have a lot of expereince with PL08 or are you just saying what you think?


If my raise preflop isolated just this one guy, i'd feel a lot more comfortable with the hand and would have definitely called given that he was putting himself allin.

I am still learning the game, like the majority of the posters here, however, I am pretty sure that you should not have bet on that flop.
For the same cost as your bet, you would have gotten to see the turn card, and while agressiveness is a good trait in this game, you did not have position when you made that bet, hence I do not believe it was a good one. 8)

[quote="Abbaddabba"][quote]
Of those giving advice - do you have a lot of expereince with PL08 or are you just saying what you think?
[/quote]

These are not mutually exclusive - in fact the former is a sub-set of the latter.

I was in position.

I also didnt have a drawing hand - in the conventional hold em sense.

A free card seems to benefit others more often than it benefits me since im usually ahead hwen it's checked to me and will get called by much worse hands (ie: hands with _just_ the nut low draw).



The fact that i used the word "just" makes it pretty clear that im asking if they _only_ belong to the second group. ... as in, are they in the part of the second set isn't a subset of the first. Are they _just_ saying what they think, or are they saying what they think while having a proven track record.

Im looking for people with proven success in PL08. I mean, not to offend anyone here, but everyone has their "convictions" of what is the right thing to do; it just so happens that people rarely have a clue about what theyre talking about (myself included a lot of the time).

That is the one of the major problems with internet forums.

That being said I bet the flop 100% of the time and I call the raise 100% of the time.

On the flop your AA is vulnerable and you don’t want to miss the turn and have someone pot into you.

On the turn your odds are way too good to fold.

If he has a set and the nut low draw then so be it. Don't fold a hand because of MOB, that is what a bankroll is for. You are going to have enough PE to call here almost every time. The times that you don’t have enough PE will easily be made up by someone pushing a hand that you beat.

That is pretty rude of you to type (in my opinion), even with the little "not to offend anyone here". In fact, that just makes it worse in my mind.

Why even post things in a forum in the first place then? Why not just send an e-mail to DN, Sklansky, Caro, or any other pro who you think would give you an answer that you find acceptable?

Do you understand the concept of a forum to begin with? Maybe this will help:

Definitions:

1. place to express yourself: a medium in which the public may debate an issue or express opinions, e.g. a magazine or newspaper


2. meeting for discussion: a meeting to discuss matters of general interest


3. Internet discussion group: an Internet discussion group for participants with common interests

IMO - you can stick your smug little attitude right up your arse. :wink:

We all should learn that we should not take any posts personal. Making or taking personal insults (if you think so) will come to haunt you at your poker plays. For example, some lucky player outdraws you and you are mad and want to get his stacks back, and that could make you tilt.

I haven't taken anything personal, I just felt that his posting that he basically only wants people who know what they are talking about to put in their two cents is utterly ignorant of the entire reason for the forum, and felt the need to inform them of that.
8)

Because there are a lot of people on this forum who's opinion i trust on this forum and because the professionals likely wouldn't be responding to a personal email asking about how to play a hand.

It's only rude if you take personal offense to not being good at poker (which seems to be the case). I've admitted that i dont consider myself to know much about PL08, and there are a lot of others that are in a similar boat. Since i am inexperienced in this game, it's difficult for me to tell who knows what they're talking about here and who doesnt. All i have to go by is who's opinion i respect in the hold 'em forums, and I dont recognize anyone who's posted in this thread from the hold 'em forums.

If someone wants to give their 2 cents, that's fine, but i want to make sure that experienced and reputable players dont overlook the thread because someone already has responded to it.



I dont think you know what the word ignorant means.
I'm only _looking_ for the opinions of people who know what they're talking about, but Im not explicitly telling people who don't have a proven track record _not_ to post.

you seem to be taking my posts as a personal attack, which it is not.

Check out all of my posts in the omaha section, and you will see that the majority of them I indicate that I am by now means an expert, as I am repeatingly asking questions (one of the reasons for having the form in the first place).

In fact, the only forum that I would honeslty say that I have a fairly extensive knowledge on would be the Stud 8 section (despite having played thousands more hands at Hold-em), and still, I would not consider myself to be an expert. So, I guess I shouldn't look to respond on any of your posts in that section too.

In fact, it would probably be likely that about three people who are members of this forum would meet your requirements to respond to your posts. Perhaps you would get the answers you are looking for by sending them a PM, as opposed to putting up a post in the Omaha section but telling all non-experts to post elsewhere.

I just felt that it was pretty rude of you to tell all of us non-experts that you basically do not want us to comment.

BTW - I do know what ignorant means, and your comments in this post have shown that you are most likely exactly that...ignorant (of the reasons for this forum - I have no idea if you are lacking an education). I meant to say ignoring, not ignorant in that last paragraph that you highlighted (sometimes my thoughts are ignorant of what my fingers are typing, as I usually go to quickly, and don't preview the majority of my posts before-hand).

Maybe I am reading WAY too much into what you have typed.

Ah forget it. I've been sick with some sort of bug for two days now, still not over it, but went back to work anyhow and got pissed off at the boss already (which didnt go over to well).

I apologise. 8)

The "reasons for this forum"? Please, tell me how the "reasons for this forum" in any way suggest that you shouldn't be requesting advice from knowledgable players.

This isn't affirmative action poker discussion. I dont have to request for advice from crap players. If you want to add your two cents in, i dont really mind. Knock yourself out.

Guess you missed that part, eh arseclown? Was having a bad day, feeling sick (still), and took it out on you, but clearly you either had it coming or welcomed it, as you wont let it die. :?