I decided to try some PL Omaha 8. I've only played the game once before in a tourney, finishing second. Sorry I can't convert but the converter hates Hollywood Poker.

The PF calls might be loose...I don't really know...but the table was very passive. I was the only one to raise during the entire session. I'm concentrating more on post-flop play, which I assume is horrible.

Hand 1:

Seat 1: high5dude ($32 in chips)
Seat 2: wildman wsop ($26.50 in chips)
Seat 3: SpdyZ ($49.50 in chips)
Seat 4: pfreit ($94.50 in chips)
Seat 5: anklebrace4 ($59.25 in chips)
Seat 6: Naismith ($46.25 in chips) [ KC 10C 9S 8S ]
Seat 7: SlickZick ($31.25 in chips)
Seat 8: qucalme ($51.50 in chips)
Seat 9: frode33 ($37 in chips)
Seat 10: BIGSHOES2 ($22 in chips)

ANTES/BLINDS
SpdyZ posts blind ($0.50), pfreit posts blind ($0.50).

PRE-FLOP
anklebrace4 calls $0.50, Naismith calls $0.50, SlickZick folds, qucalme calls $0.50, frode33 folds, BIGSHOES2 folds, high5dude calls $0.50, wildman wsop folds, SpdyZ checks, pfreit checks.

FLOP [board cards 2C,8H,7C ]
SpdyZ bets $2, pfreit calls $2, anklebrace4 folds, Naismith calls $2, qucalme calls $2, high5dude folds.

TURN [board cards 2C,8H,7C,JD ]
SpdyZ bets $4, pfreit calls $4, Naismith bets $8, qucalme folds, SpdyZ calls $4, pfreit calls $4.

RIVER [board cards 2C,8H,7C,JD,JC ]
SpdyZ bets $7, pfreit calls $7, Naismith calls $7.

******* That river card was a horrific one, but should I have raised anyway since I was pretty certain that SpdyZ had the low and the other guy didn't raise the river? Also, should I be raising more on that turn?


Hand 2:

Seat 1: high5dude ($35.75 in chips)
Seat 2: wildman wsop ($25.50 in chips)
Seat 3: SpdyZ ($124 in chips)
Seat 4: pfreit ($18 in chips)
Seat 5: anklebrace4 ($57.25 in chips)
Seat 6: Naismith ($51.50 in chips) [ AD,QH,4D,3D ]
Seat 7: SlickZick ($30.75 in chips)
Seat 8: qucalme ($44 in chips)
Seat 9: frode33 ($36 in chips)
Seat 10: Saltypirate ($15 in chips)

ANTES/BLINDS
Naismith posts blind ($0.50), SlickZick posts blind ($0.50), Saltypirate posts blind ($0.50).

PRE-FLOP
qucalme calls $0.50, frode33 folds, Saltypirate checks, high5dude folds, wildman wsop folds, SpdyZ folds, pfreit folds, anklebrace4 calls $0.50, Naismith checks, SlickZick checks.

FLOP [board cards 4S,2S,5S ]
Naismith bets $2, SlickZick folds, qucalme folds, Saltypirate calls $2, anklebrace4 calls $2.

TURN [board cards 4S,2S,5S,10H ]
Naismith bets $4, Saltypirate calls $4, anklebrace4 calls $4.

RIVER [board cards 4S,2S,5S,10H,5C ]
Naismith checks, Saltypirate bets $8.50 and is all-in, anklebrace4 bets $46, Naismith calls $45 and is all-in.


***** I was completely lost in this hand. I didn't know whether I should be betting aggressively the entire way or more conservatively due to the likelihood of being quatered.

EDIT: To note that this is, in fact, PLO8.

Peace,
Jay

You say the table was very passive, but are the players in general loose passive or tight passive? Tight / Loose and Passive / Agressive changes what hands you play AND how you play them IMO.

Looking at it based on no reads -

Hand 1:

After the flop - I would have raised rather than called. You have an open-ended straight draw AND the king high flush draw. Many many outs!!!

After the turn - I don't like your minimum raise at all. Its PLO, so lets use that to our advantage. You have the current nuts, so make them pay to outdraw you.

After the river - who bets $7 into that pot?

Hand 2:

Fold on the flop. You bet out though, which is better than checking IMO! 2 callers.

On the turn - that card didnt help you but didnt hurt you either. I hate betting with a straight when a flush is possible. 2 people called you when the flush is possible, so IMO they have small flushes themselves, a set, or two pair currently. Proceed with caution! Don't spend any more money.

On the river - if you were not beat on the turn, you are now! Don't spend any more money. 8)

They were mostly tight-passive with one guy that was much looser than the rest ("one guy" being me). Very few calls post-flop. Lots of minimum bets, though. Like I said, I don't have experience at this game, but even I could tell these guys were horrible. It seems to me that PLO is all about position. I raised it up with mediocre hands a few times late and took it down post-flop with a bet.

Okay, so raise the flop on the first one. I would raise that flop every day of the week in Hold'Em but I discounted my flush outs since I read somewhere "only draw to the nuts in Omaha".

On the turn: bet like a man. Got it. Should I have raised the pot? I was concerned about the low re-raising and driving out the guy in between who I assumed was paying for both of our lunches.

I agree that the seven dollar bet on the river was weak, but should I have raised? I assumed I would've heard from a set earlier in the hand, but I wasn't certain if the paired board would scare an AXc into just calling. Essentially, I didn't think I could beat much that would call a raise here.

As for the second one, why fold the flop? I have a straight which might be good and I have the nut low which is definitely good for at least a portion of the pot. I just wasn't sure how aggressively to bet the low once it was apparent my high was beat (which I figured it was after they both called the turn) with only two people in. With more than four people, I keep betting, right?

Thanks,
Jay

Beep beep beep...back the truck up...you just said something about the "low"...is this PL Omaha Hi/Lo? You didnt say that...that would change everything I just said... :?

Oh, sorry. You forgot to take into consideration that I'm an idiot.

All above hands are referencing PLO8!

Stupidly,
Jay

This is PLO, not PLO8, right?

Hand 1.
Flop, I would just call. You don't have a nut flush draw, and the straight draw isn't huge because you've only 6 clean outs. If you are holding something like 69TJ which gives you 16 straight draws (some of them has clubs, but what the heck), then go ahead pot it.

Turn, do the damage, pot it. There's only one card to come and you've got the nut hand, make them pay to draw.

Hand 2.
This is a wrong hand to begin with if it's PLO. I fold it preflop.
If I misclick to call then on the flop it's easiest thing to fold since it's a flush board.

It seems to me that PLO is all about position.

In micro-limits where max buy-ins are 100BBs, position is still important, but less important than those high stake PLOs where you put in 500BBs or more.

You've read some online articles that said so but didn't understand it is for higher stake games.

Now that I know the correct game we are playing, here is a whole new set of thoughts:

Hand 1:

On the flop - This could get expensive only playing for half the pot. You have a lot of outs for the high half, but again, only for half the pot. Some quick math to see if it is worthwhile to even call this $2 bet.

3 x $46.25 = $138.75 / 2 is $69.38

$69.38 - $46.25 = $23.12 profit.

Doesn't seem worth it to risk your whole stack of $46 to possibly win $23 to me. Especially when you don't have the nut-flush draw. Fold right here right now!

Hand 2:

Now we are talking! You have a chance to scoop the pot here.

On the flop - bet out like you did. 2 callers only, no raises. At most of the tables I have played at, if someone also had the made nut-low withus, they would have raised it up. Similarily, if someone had the nut-flush, they would have raised it up. However, if they had the nut-low AND the nut flush, I would just call here also. How likely is that to have happened?

On the turn - that card didnt help us, didnt hurt us, and probably did nothing to our opponents also. I think this is where you pot it. If someone has the non-nut flush, they will probably fold.

River - plays itself, based on what happened on the turn (push em all in in case you were wondering), regardless of what comes off. 8)

Again, sorry for the confusion, but this was PLO8. My bad.

As for the articles...I haven't read much about Omaha. That's just my experience from the two times I've played PLO8...even moreso than HE, position is a killer. Of course, that's from only two times' worth of experience.

Thanks for the response.

Jay

first hand fold preflop, on the flop even though you have an open ender and the 2nd nut flush draw your only playing for half the pot so i would play conservative.

Second hand same thing one person has to have the flush therefore your only playing for half the pot which could be in fact quartered

hand 1 should be folded preflop.

stay away from middle cards (6, 7, 8 and 9) like the plague. the ONLY exceptions are:

- a 6 with a strong three-wheel hand (A-2-4-6, A-3-5-6, A-2-5-6, etc.) since the ability to make a 6-high straight along with a wheel for low gives you strong three-quartering potential.

- a 9 with a strong three-broadway hand, specifically including a king (K-Q-J-9, K-Q-10-9, K-J-10-9). this gives you a good chance for a high-straight-wrap draw that prevents a low being possible, but even then, a 9 usually sucks in every other hand.

finally, suitedness is irrelevant when the pot is multiway and you don't have the ace of the suit. being suited to the king is a death trap.

ok, on the flop, this is the easiest check/fold in the world. there is a low possible. do you have a low? no. the BEST you can do is get half the pot. why do you want that???

you're also chasing a second-nut flush draw that is VERY likely to be the second best hand at showdown. add the possibility of you hitting, having the best flush, and the board pairing! stay away from this like the plague as well.

hand 2 should be played VERY passively, and you should toss it into the muck right away if the pot gets three-way or heads-up and there's heavy action.

you do NOT want to be isolated with this hand. you want this pot to remain five-way or more so that you can make a profit knowing you're getting quartered usually.

do NOT bet here. check and reevaluate based on the action, on every street.

aseem

Thanks for all the responses. Consesus is...I played those hands like a clown.

Here are the results for any interested party.

HAND 1:

SHOWDOWN
SpdyZ shows [ AH,6D,4H,3S ]
pfreit shows [ 5D,9C,AD,4C ]
Naismith shows [ 9S,10C,8S,KC ]
SpdyZ wins low $26.50, Naismith wins high $26.75.


HAND 2:

SHOWDOWN
anklebrace4 shows [ 10S,AS,6C,4C ]
Naismith shows [ AD,QH,4D,3D ]
Saltypirate mucks cards [ QS,JS,7D,JD ]
anklebrace4 wins high $1, Naismith wins low $36, anklebrace4 wins high $36.25, Naismith wins low $21.75, anklebrace4 wins high $22.


Thanks again.

Peace,
Jay

It is good that you looked at these two hands and realized that you made mistakes, even though you picked up half both times.

Lesson 1: There are many, many terrible PLO8 players online
Lesson 2: You should still try to play well.

This like the example hand I like to point out where my wife called a potbet on the river with the nut low and pocket 3's for the high, and took three quarters from the guy who was betting with only ace-high for his high-half. Absolutely ridiculous, and she played it terribly. The only thing going for her was the knowledge that the bettor was a complete idiot (we had seen him reload four times in fifteen minutes).

None of this changes her terrible play, even though she profited hugely on the hand.

Much the same, you were rescued by the gross incompetence of your table mates.

Man, I need to make a shirt that says, "Save by the gross incompetence of my table mates".

That was good for a laugh.

Jay

You can fold both flops.

Good luck.

Luck won't come if you keep folding.

Seriously, why "Good luck" in every post?

In the second one, I flop the nut low. I understand that I could be quartered here (or even worse), but do I really give it up that easily?

Thanks,
Jay