Full Tilt Pot-Limit Omaha, $1.00 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($107.95)
UTG ($103.80)
Hero (UTG+1) ($281.60)
MP1 ($114.70)
MP2 ($38.85)
CO ($147.60)
Button ($47.60)
SB ($43.50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J , K , 9 , 8
1 fold, Hero calls $1, 4 folds, SB bets $4, BB calls $3, Hero calls $3

Flop: ($12) J , K , 5 (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets $12, Hero calls $12, 1 fold

Turn: ($36) 4 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $36, BB raises to $91.95 (All-In), Hero...


both players are pretty bad. SB buys in for like $40, loses it and rebuys like 8 times a session. he bluffs a lot, too.
a lot of my stack came against the BB earlier when i pot raised preflop over utg limper and she called in the BB with A249ss. she called a AKx flop and bet pot when she picked up a flush draw on the turn.

This is a weird hand. PLO is not a check raise turn game like this (raise pre, bet out post, then check raise turn.....). I can't believe he has a set, because you are never going to check raise a set on such a dangerous board here. I pretty much isolate this guy's range to some sort of draw(s). So even if he's got AdQdTc9c, I think you are still getting the right price to call. Odds are he's more limited to some level of wrap straight with one flush draw. I mean you can't totally eliminate sets from his range I guess, but I doubt he's pre flop raising 55 or 44, and even JJ and KK shouldn't be necessarily IMO depending on support cards.

It's a tough hand here....but getting nearly 3:1 on your call here, I can't imagine folding this. If he's got a set, he's got balls of steel to take this turn line and it sucks horribly for us. Anything else and it's the correct mathematical play. I'm sweating knowing this guy's probably near 50/50 with me still on this river (and I hate gambles like this), but it's the right $$ move.

If there's any way you could reasonably conclude that he is capable of playing a set this way, I may reconsider, since we have ZERO redraws on a very drawy board.

EDIT: There's always a possibility of villain taking this wacky line if he's got a set AND a flush draw. I dunno. PLO is more of a bet size variation game compared to a shut down stop and go here on this turn. So i think my above thoughts are still my final answer. Unless phone a friend or audience thinks different.

Villain has Ad4d4cQs and just hit bottom set to go with his flush and straight draw. Seriously though, there's no way I can see villain doing this as a bluff expecting you to fold. I think he has you crushed a high % and you should give it up.

i kind of think set and a flush and that is actually a good play by villain because he got your pot bet if he makes you fold and has a lot of outs if you call. i mean that is kind of what i see. Do you have any notes on villain at all? any history? I kind of agree with both above post more or less but reads could change my opinion a lot because both feel like they need reads to weed out some key hands that tip the scale. As played i vote fringe call simply due to pot odds but wouldn't be suprised at all to be nailed here.

Another possible hand for villain is KJ with redraws, but I don't think this changes too much, really - I still vote for a fold.

villain is not the pf raiser. that was SB and he folded on the flop. villain is BB and could have a ton of hands here, with my read.

as for reads, i included them. villain in this hand called a big raise in the BB with A249 ds in a 4 way pot (2 of the players, including SB here, were basically all in preflop minus like a buck a piece). she c/c AKx flop and bet pot when she picked up a flush draw on the turn.

which makes me think she'd just bet again with a big draw. or maybe she just checked a draw with no pairs and figured since i bet 1/3 of her stack anyway she just stuck it in.

EDIT X2: Sry, didn't realize SB was pre flop raiser. Even for a player this loose (BB), I'm having a hard time putting 44 in the range unless it's literally 44AX with two diamonds. I'm hard pressed to assign her this specific a range, given your history with her. I don't think any set gets tricky with a turn check here unless it's got a NFD with it. Given the player's loose style (inferred from OP), I'm not betting pot on this turn unless I'm willing to get it in. If I'm concerned with the villain's loose tendancies, and don't want to be put to a CRAI situation, I check this turn back and reevaluate on the river.

I dunno, I guess it all depends on what this C/R from BB can mean. I'm answering under the notion that she is a very loose/aggressive player. In that situation, I think a call is warranted here. If there's more we can glean from this C/R move, then yes, folding is appropriate as you are sitting on a drawy board with top two pair and NO redraws. Essentially, I would fold this every time to any normal player. I'm voting for a call here based on your analysis of this player, and my inference that this loose player would make this stop and go move with a various lesser two pair and FD more than she would as a trapping nuts or nuts + draw hand.

hey does anyone think that maybe with a st8 and flush draw on flop that coming over top the cbet? I mean odviously we probably fold to a reraise back to use from villain but it does charge every single combo draw out there? I mean villain doesn't come back reover top every time does he?
* side note: is reover top even a real term lol!

You know,..... Do we even fold to a repop if we reraise flop here? I mean with the high chance of combo draws going for stacks here, along with the sets of course, and with a tiny amount of splits, if we reraise pot i could almost ( i stress almost) see going all the way and coin flipping against the combo draws on the flop

No I don't like this. The thing is that if reraised you're definitely behind villain's range but will probably have to call because of the number of combo draws in villain's range. There might be some small benefit to raising in folding out villain's non-nut flush draws, but I don't think it's enough. Also there's still a third player in the hand who could be trapping.

OP's read on villain is that he liked to bluff - so I think the best strategy is not to try to run him off his bluffs, but to let him keep bluffing...

This is also why checking the turn is probably better than betting here.
You have to compare the value of betting (building a pot with the best hand and folding out hands that would have improved to beat you) to the cost of betting (chance that you are beat and putting in money with the worst of it).

And determine whether that is greater than the value of checking (possibility of improving to the best hand on the river and likelihood of provoking a river bluff).

I think that based on the likelihood that villain will bluff the river if he misses and based on the relative weakness of your hand overall, there is more value in checking the turn.

What were the results?

oh im so sure he folded from what he tends to post and the trouble 2 pairs have given him in plo ( based on former posts) im pretty sure he learned his lesson

my read wasnt necessarily that villain bluffed, just that she might bet with medium-weakish hands. however, i had not seen her (or hardly anyone at this stake) check raise.

so, her bet on the flop might have been just a draw or pair+draw, but her check raise was at minimum 2 pair and a big draw. atleast thats my best guess. so i figured i was either flipping or crushed by her range, and i folded.

if the original raiser (the SB, who i know will bluff) had made this play, i might have called. though, he only bluffs when someone has been acting weak in a hand, so it would less likely be a bluff, but seeing as he's always in the game and often donating, i might have taken a close gamble b/c i knew id get my money back soon and it would keep him in the game longer besides.

so, i think i made the right play, though i guess she could have a worse 2 pair and a draw which would make me a slight favorite (i think).

really, i just wanted to know how some more experienced players than i handled this kind of situation