Here is an interesting spot...Is checking the river the correct play or should I be betting it the majority of the time?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($50)
UTG ($29.60)
MP ($47.75)
CO ($58.55)
Hero (Button) ($59.80)
SB ($50)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5 , A
UTG calls $0.50, 2 folds, Hero bets $1.25, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.75

Flop: ($3.25) 9 , A , 10 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $2.50, UTG calls $2.50

Turn: ($8.25) 7 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $4.50, UTG calls $4.50

River: ($17.25) A (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

Total pot: $17.25 | Rake: $0.85

Results in white below:
Hero had 5 , A (three of a kind, Aces).
UTG had 8 , J (straight, Jack high).
Outcome: UTG won $16.40

take out the results to get better input.

I bet $7 on river and fold to a re-raise.

depends entirely on how the villain plays.

Well yeah but most of the time there's nothing you can beat that's check raising the river here. However I guess if villain has been hyper aggressive then insta call and puke when u see a full house,

This is a pet peeve of mine. You cannot fold to a reraise because villain can't reraise you, he can only raise you.

That being said, OP, b/f (edit: against an unknown) is the correct line. You are missing tons of value by checking here.

Definitely bet/fold

However TPNK is unlikely to get 3 streets from worse hands...so I check behind on the turn, call or bet this river.

Meh, I know ppl are saying B/F but I don't think we get anything but a chop or beaten by that move.

the turn card sucks, I might check behind and call that river, it's a cooler, there's nothing you can really do to avoid this

This. As played i fire out $8 on the river and muck we he check raises you.

Wow now that I think about it you are absolutly right, cause you wouldnt be raising $7 you'd be betting $7. My bad! lol

I dont see why I should bet the river here...what is he calling me with that I beat. Is he really going to call with K10, JJ, or qq when I raise preflop, bet the flop, turn, and river? I dont even think other hands are even possible. I think all that betting here would do is make him either fold or raise me because I am either way ahead or way behind. I think that I just have to be happy with getting to see a free showdown.

If he was calling you down with Tx/JJ/QQ before, he's still calling the river, because the A coming makes it less likely that you have one. It's also a great card for you to triple barrel if you were going nuts with something like QJ, so if he had you on a draw before he's calling this river. Are we really scared of being raised here?

No I'm more afraid of him having an ace which I think is his most likely holding here. If he does I am either beat or we split so I dont get what betting does for me.

Put me in the camp with the people that check behind on that river. Nothing we beat is calling us. At best we get a split. What's the best hand that we beat flat out? K,K .... is K,K calling you here? umm, not unless he is an idiot (which he would have to be to have played K,K like that, LOL). More likely he would be holding like J,10 or something.

If they called to the river, why would they fold now? The A infact just improves their hand, making it less likely you hold an A.

Also, I just noticed this. Please quit with the mini-raises in cash games.

+1, since you basically echoed what I said

Villain will call with plenty of worse hands here.

I wish I woulda seen your post....woulda saved me a bunch of typing

What range of hands are we talking here that this guy would call all the way down with that dont beat me? And why would they not have raised these hands earlier rather than just call down?


and the small ball style raise works great in low level cash games...

T8+, 98+, JJ. (Yes even including T9)

Why WOULD he raise any of those hands (except maybe T9 - but plenty of people slow play weak two pairs and get counterfeited)? You're certainly not calling with anything worse. Perhaps you'd fold better, but in that case he might as well be holding 23.

The raise size pf is bad. Your in position ok but your making basically a min raise with a marginal holding that typically has little to no showdown value.

Villian limp calls utg and his most likely holding is an A for a chop? His most likely holds are pretty much all suited connectors, one or two gappers, pps, broadways, etc. Basically most of the deck.

I would consider a value bet on river but my default would be bet turn / check behind river..

If we have a hand that is probably best but, not going to get value on all 3 streets, b/f turn and check behind river is almost always the best line to take against a loose-passive player.

Maybe, just maybe, they arrived at the river, calling all the way, because they have a better hand.

Yes, maybe, but against the entire range as a whole we're ahead, easily.

OK, so here's the thing we all need to notice about the hand.
He's called. He's called. He's called.
Three calls is not a bluff.
And three calls of a PF raise on an A high board is not a PP.
"Not a bluff" translates into: "best we can hope for is a chop here," IMHO.

why bet the turn? what do you think hes calling on the flop with? that board is starting to hit a lot of loose player limping sort of hands which beat your hand.

I still stand by what i said before. It has worked for me at this level and lower. Players make huge mistakes after the flop so letting them see the flop when you have position lets them make these mistakes. You just need to be smart about how you play after the flop and be able to get away from hands when you are beat.



I still agree with this.



Agreed. But he also showed weakness twice. A bet allows me to find out where I am at by making a bet whatever size I choose. If I check he will almost auto bet pot into me on the river leaving me in a much tougher spot. I'd be forced to make a bigger decision with no information to go on.

A bet here can also make him throw away his weakish ace. Also at this level a lot of players also love calling flop bets with nothing to try and do what they think is picking off a c bet and they just hope that you dont bet the turn. When you do bet they go away. There is also a lot of people that call the flop bet to pray for a miracle on the turn and when they dont hit they fold.

Why's this a tough spot really? If you know he's going to bet the river like always then you have to assume bluffs / worse hands make up a huge part of his range. Simple check behind / call psb on river in that case.

So far the range that we have come up with for this guy is either way ahead or way behind me after the turn card. If I'm behind I can only pray that a five on the river wins me the hand so seeing a free river does next to nothing for me. If I am ahead there are a lot of cards that can come out on the river that scare me based on his range. If I bet it gives me some sort of information. If he raises my turn bet 75% of the time (maybe more) he is beating me here. It allows me to make my decision based on how he has played and act accordingly.

What is unlikely is that he would smooth call the flop and turn and then lead out on the river with a pot sized bluff (I have seen that play just about never at this level. When this move has been pulled on missed draws the bets have tended to be small and somewhat obvious bluffs). What is likely is him leading out on the river with a pot sized bet after I showed weakness by checking on the turn. Calling a pot sized river bet isnt exactly the easiest decision. My hand isnt very strong. The fact that he called my flop bet showed that he most likely had some sort of hand, whether it was a draw or not idk. I dont want him leading into me on the river because a 6,8,9,10,j,q,and k are all cards that complete draws that beat me that he could have potentially just called with on the flop. Pretty much chances are im not gonna like the river and not gonna want to call.

by this line of thinking you played the hand correctly



but by this thinking and the fact that you feel he will bet the pot into you on any river a check on the turn is good.

these seem to contradict each other.

who things other option neglecting river........
i think most dumb player on earth

QFT???

That is raising for information. DONT DO IT. Google raising for information or look at the sticky posts in this forum.

Listen to Anti stuff he is 100% right in this thread and trying to help your thought process. Do yourself a MASSIVE favour and take the time to listen to what he is trying to correct, it is much deeper then just one value bet on this river.

qui les choses l'autre option négligeant le fleuve ........ je pensent la plupart de joueur sourd-muet sur terre

wem Sachen andere Wahl, die Fluss ........ ich vernachlässigt, den meisten stummen Spieler auf Erde denken

кому вещи другой вариант упуская реку ........ я думают большинств тупой игрок на земле

quién las cosas la otra opción que descuida el río ........ yo piensan a la mayoría del jugador mudo en la tierra

<3 babelfish

You forgot to translate his post into English.

I think he meant to say something really acidic but hit the FAIL WALL in the translation.