A little background: I'm a 28 year high school teacher and coach who grew up playing poker recreationally, was intrigued by casino poker after moving out to LA from Boston after college, read Harrington, found 2+2 and FCP, and started playing about two or three times a month about four years ago. Yes I am an English teacher and realize what a mess of a run-on sentence that was.

Two years ago read SSHE, and obviously felt much more comfortable, still didn't keep stats, but was definitely a winning player. I know, I know, there's no way to know for sure, but I know. I'd pick up a couple hundred here and there playing 3-6 or 4-8, win about 75-80% of my sessions, but never had any crazy long losing streaks. My problem was I'd spend my winnings pretty quickly and therefore never build a proper bankroll. Actually, it wasn't a problem, it was a choice, and I had no problem doing it.


Tried playing online but didn't have the focus necessary, I'd always try to grade papers while playing cause I got bored with no one to talk to. I respect online players very much!!!


This spring and summer I have a lot of free time in LA and have decided to use most of it to build a proper bankroll. Here is where I need some advice.

I started with $1600 and decided to play 4-8 to start. I know 300 BB's is the general standard, but the games are SO soft here (Hustler, Bicycle Club, Commerce, Hollywood Park) plus the rake is killer, so I figured I'd push it and start with 4-8. In four sessions I won $750, OBVIOUSLY a sick run of cards, nowhere close to what I expect, but, in fairness I play really well, SSHE pretty much by the book, took advantage of the cards I got, and didn't put myself in stupid spots.

So now my roll is at $2350, and my original plan was to play 6-12 when I got to $2400, see how soft the games are, and if I dropped to $1800 go back to 4-8 and build to $3000 (250 BB's at 6-12) before moving up again.

Should I scrap going to 6-12 when I get to $2400 and continue to build at 4-8? Anyone have experience in Los Angeles at 6-12? Games similar to 3-6 and 4-8? I figure I'll get more thinking players maybe capable of c/ring the turn on a semi-bluff, but I feel strongly in my ability to evaluate players at the table.

Also, and I apologize for the long post, but I would love some feedback on the rules I set for myself. I made them up with a friend who is an experienced player. Here they are:

15-25 hours per week
No weekday session over 5 hours
Cannot begin a weekday session after 6 PM
No weekend session over 7 hours
Cannot begin a weekend session after 8 PM
10 minute break every 90 minutes
Cannot play for more than 3 consecutive days
No alcohol during session
Can’t lose more than 25 BB per session
One buy in per session, 25 BB
Cannot begin a hand with less than 5 BB

Thank you for being patient reading all of this, I am very open to criticism and just want to do things right. I will definitely be posting hands and whatnot over the next few months, and I look forward to discussing them. Thanks!

While I run better live than online, I mostly stick to tournaments, so I don't really have all that much advice for cash games. 25 big blinds strikes me as rather low, though - is that normal at the place where you play?
In any case, sounds like you are doing well - good luck!

The 25 BB's rule was a tilt-proofing if you will. As was the 10 minute break every 90 minutes. Could be changed, but I'm gonna stick with it for a while.

I agree, 25BB isn't much of a buyin. Live I buyin for no less than 30BBs, with money behind for at least another 20BBs. Live LHE is so swingy you need those extra BBs after a bad run.

For anti tilt, just take a break/walk around a few minutes after a bad hand or bad beat.

I have a lot of experience playing live LHE. But, it's after midnight and I'm tired, so I'm gonna come back tomorrow and edit this post with my thoughts/comments. It could get rather lengthy and verbose.

Ok, so my thoughts on this. I think that it's probably fine for you to take a shot or two at the 6/12 game and see what it's like. Since you're not playing poker for income, I think 200 BB is probably just fine as a bankroll. I used to play 6/12 with less than 100 BB for a long time and while I did eventually go broke, it was mostly because I started taking shots at a 10/20 game that I had no business in. The key I think would be for you to be able to honestly assess your play in relation to the other players at the table. If you start losing at 6/12, drop back down, if you feel like you're overmatched, drop back down and build back again. I would think it would make sense to pick a number (like 200 BB) and use that as your bankroll number. If you get down to $1600 again (200 BB for the next level down) you drop back down. This way you're minimizing your risk of ruin while improving your opportunity to build.

As far as your rules, I like them to some extent, but I think it's important to be flexible. I don't see any problem with playing for more like 50 BB in one night (you can experience some pretty big swings in LHE and 25 BB may not always be enough). Sure, start with 25, but be a little flexible, if you start getting short (less than 10 BB or so) and the game is good and you're playing well, go ahead and reload. The key in LHE is that you should never be putting yourself in a position where you're all-in...because when you're all-in you're probably not maximizing value on your hand.

Also, I don't know where you came up with the restrictions on starting times, but I recommend you scrap those. If your casino serves alcohol the best times to play are going to be Friday and Saturday nights between about 9 pm and 3 am. This is when you have the most people at your table who are inebriated. In LHE you can make tons of money from these people.

My final thought is a question. It's been a long time since I've seen a 6/12 game. Back in '06, we had one at the casino near Cincinnati, but it eventually went away. Even in Vegas, I haven't seen much in the way of LHE between the lowest levels (3/6, 4/8) and the higher ones (10/20 and up). The question would be, does your home casino have a LHE game higher than 6/12? When I was playing 6/12 we had 3 LHE games at my casino...3/6, 6/12 & 10/20. The best players were in the 10/20, the play in 6/12 was slightly better over all than in the 3/6, but still very beatable. What I've found though is that the biggest game at your casino is going to attract the best players and your SSHE style may not work against them very well because they all know what they're doing. So, if 6/12 isn't the highest game at your home casino, then go crazy...if it is, go ahead and give it a shot, but be ready to honestly assess the play at the table and get out after a session or two if you're overmatched.

Don't really understand the reasoning behind the points bolded above. Like, I guess if you cannot play more than 25hrs a week, fair enough, but the general thought process is a little flawed.

If you are at a soft table, and playing well, it would be a shame to leave just because 'you can't play over 5/7 hours'.

Your rules are very important and I would stick to every one of them. When winning, I think you can play longer sessions and should stay until you feel the momentum switch or that you are no longer playing your "A" game. The one thing about limit holdem at the 4-8 level is that if you are playing consistently you will run into long stretches where playing your absolute best means breaking even when the average player would have lost their buy in. The days where everything comes easy and you win 30 or more big bets are great but that is not really the challenge when grinding. Accepting a small loss or a small profit when sitting at a table of true fish is sometimes much harder later on than at the beginning. Especially starting out on a heater, be careful of your expectations, stick to all your rules and take a break of 4-5 days every month or so. I have found over the past 5 years that I am virtually unbeatable when I am fresh, rested, happy and content. Whether this is a testament to how bad my opponents are or how good I am, I honestly can't say. I do know that I became a truly winning player when I learned to walk away from the game when my "inner voice" told me I was tired, frustrated, tilted or had just found a table full of players who never fold and happened to be getting lucky on that particular day. I can't stress this enough - there are days when the worst players you have ever seen will draw out every time they hold a gutshot vs your top set etc. When you can smile and say nice hand, or when it happens repeatedly and you can cash out even and come back the next day with a positive attitude you will have found a profession. Good luck

Typically what are these better more advanced players doing that you will not see other players doing in the smaller games. Obviously not chasing with any gut shot or over card, ace etc. Curious about your experience. I have never played higher than 3-6 and now with Colorado increasing their limits I will have an opportunity to play in some bigger games. Thanks.

A basic understanding of the concepts in SSHE will allow you to win (and win quite a bit) in small stakes games, by paying attention mostly to just your cards and your odds. Most of the time hand reading isn't all that important and the pot is mostly going to be big enough for you to chase virtually all of your decent draws...and often you'll even be able to peel with gutshots on the flop and even every now and then on the turn.

As the skill level at your table increases more pots will be contested 3-handed or heads-up, meaning that your odds to draw sometimes go away (both pre-flop and after the flop). Furthermore, since more pots are contested shorthanded, hand reading and putting your opponent on a range of hands becomes much more important. You have to be better at getting away from hands when you're drawing less live, but you also have to realize that one pair is going be good much more often in hotly contested pots than it was in the small stakes game.

In general, you have to be able to read the other players better and it becomes much more about playing the players at your table than just playing your cards. Whereas, small stakes games are much more about just playing your cards. You also would want to tighten up pre-flop in early position, but be prepared to get looser in late position. It's just a very different game when the majority of your table is semi-competent than it is when the majority of your table plays like monkeys.

I really have a feeling that the 10-20 games they will be spreading will play a lot like the lower limit games. Only time will tell. The casino I like to play at will have 3-6 and 4-8 and hope to spread a 10-20 24 hours a day. Will be interesting to see if they can get maybe a 30-60 or 40-80 game on a regular basis. The new limits allow for a max bet of $100. 5 more weeks and I wil find out. Plan on focusing on 3-6 and 4-8 initially and then may take a shot or 2 at a higher game to see the difference.

Typically what kind of rake can I expect at a 10-20 game? Casinos here also take $2 for the bad beat jackpot. Thanks

High stakes players don't do anything differently. They're just luckier.

You are just kidding right?