HORSE - 7 Card Stud High-Low ($1/$2), Ante $0.10, Bring-In $0.50 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.80 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 4 ___folds
Seat 2: xx xx K ___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 5 ___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 5 ___raises
Seat 5: xx xx Q ___calls
Seat 6: xx xx J ___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 7 ___calls
Hero: A 8 4 ___brings-in___calls

4th Street - (4.80 SB)

Seat 4: xx xx 5 4 ___raises
Seat 5: xx xx Q 3 ___bets___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 7 T ___calls___calls
Hero: A 8 4 9 ___calls___calls

5th Street - (6.40 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx 5 4 9:club: ___bets
Seat 5: xx xx Q 3 J ___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 7 T 6 ___folds
Hero: A 8 4 9 K ___checks___calls

6th Street - (9.40 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx 5 4 9 T ___checks___calls
Seat 5: xx xx Q 3 J 2 ___bets
Hero: A 8 4 9 K 8 ___checks___calls

River - (12.40 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx 5 4 9 T xx___checks___folds
Seat 5: xx xx Q 3 J 2 xx___bets
Hero: A 8 4 9 K 8 T ___checks___folds

Total pot: (12.40 BB)


Once I call 3rd, which is borderline, is there any point I should let this go?

dump 4th street , too many dimaonds out there,. dont chase the low.

Calling on fourth is going to get you raised by the 45 acting behind you way too often.

The only real way to play this profitably is to go curve ball on 4th and raise it up yourself, counting on the 45 to 3-bet. This accomplishes three things:

1. ) It disguises your true holdings well
2. ) It may freeze the 45 in it's tracks, giving you the betting lead in the hand.
3. ) It may even narrow the field if your opponents are "good" enough to not think of themselves as pot committed when they have tossed a bet in a pot on a street that will likely end up costing 4 bet

The bonus here is we are chasing a miracle draw, and we might as well build the pot to the point we can draw at it until 6th. Just like in any limit variant, going nuts on the cheap street will often time buy you that free card on the more expensive street, or at least kill the raising that is likely to ping pong you out of the hand.

I mean, if I was going to play this, that's probably how I'd swing it, especially at 1/2 where your opponents are a little more likely to be deathly afraid of a raise from a "49" up than they would at .25/.50 or something. Definitely read-dependant, but a good way to mix up your play to make you more "callable" when you do indeed have a monster.

All that said, for the love of god, fold on 4th. You're gonna get repopped behind, and you need 2 diamonds in 4 cards or a lotta pretty non-pairing low cards in a hurry to even get to either side of the pot. Essentially cound on need *3* out of 4 near perfect low cards for a low, and 2 of the last seven diamonds, with 4 cards to come for a high. That's a pretty tall order. I'm sure we can find better spots to get our money in than this. Hard to justify the gamble when we are truly this far behind.

edit: Crap, it's HORSE stud8? Def fold on 4th.

Dump on 3rd - three of your low cards are visibly buried, and seats 4 and 7 being involved (both seemingly better on the low end than your A48) means probably 4 more are buried. I play WAY too many hands like this, and it doesn't work out well for me. A48 has very little scooping possibility, and it looks like you're behind on the low.

Like others have said, dump it on 4th.

I'm not sure about Cappy's advice to raise on 4th. It disguises your true holdings because no one would ever expect a huge underdog on the low and a 3 card flush to be raising on 4th...there's a reason for that

On the other hand I might lead out on 5th. You have what is almost certainly the winning flush draw here. Maybe if you're lucky 4 5 9 guy raises behind you and scares away both the other villains. Then you probably add a couple high pair outs to your diamond draw, not to mention getting equity from a naked low draw that ultimately bricks. If 4 5 9 guy doesn't raise, then oh well - you put one bet in the pot on 5th. You did that anyway.

Just a thought, not sure if it's a good one or not.

It's a good way to mix up play, but not in this particular situation. On an *actual* stud8 table against guaranteed competent stud8 players, you rep serious strength firing both barrels with a 49 showing. Obviously it works better against high hands and rougher looking, unsuited lows. But you can commit some serious larceny once in a while.

I mean, we get asked for ways to play hands.. Do a dozen replies of "Fold third, Fold Fourth" make for interesting reading?

btw-- I like leading out 5th more with the 8 showing, gives the Q3 more of a chance to ponder if we got kings in the hole. He has less inclination that we were going low in the first place with an 8 as our doorcard than if we have our 4 showing. Then, if we get raised by the 45, it may knock the Q out, if all he has is a pair of Queens. If that manages to happen, you suddenly have a fighting chance at half of the pot. God willing, you may even still have scoop outs.

I fold on 3rd or 4th, i dont like playing 8's with nothing going for them

I don't think folding 3rd can ever be considered. The hand is weak, but I was bring in and when it came back to me I was closing with action for only half a bet 4 way. 8-1 to see 4th. Folding here would be a huge leak IMO.

Folding third would be rather tight, I agree.

However, most stud8 strat questions begin "I was dealt (8x)x, and..."

It'd be fun to crunch numbers and see how three cards to a ragged eight play in different situations.

Played as the bring-in for half price, 4-handed, against 2 door cards below 8 might actually be one of the more favorable scenarios. But we certainly know tossing our money in the middle that we are likely going to have to make some serious decisions in marginal spots before the hand is over. That's the drawback, in my opinion. It costs you a quarter to make a big money decision in a scary situation later on in the hand. I think the phrase I'm looking for is "reverse pot odds".

We won't have any real idea where we stand until 5th street, and, on 3rd, before we put that complete in we should *know* our best case scenario is paying a small bet on 4th to get to see 5th. We're going into 5th hoping to catch good and have at least once (preferrably both) low door cards either pair or hit the pinnochle side of the deck.

A couple thoughts on folding 3rd:

- How many situations make you happy on 4th street though? The other two low cards have to catch a high card and you have to catch a low card to be happy. An ace makes you happy as well, so add that.

- You really aren't getting 8-1 because you're really only playing for half the pot here unless you catch an ace and then probably at least second pair at some point. Your real equity is only in half the pot, not the full pot.

Also, keep in mind that taking into consideration the upcards you've seen on 3rd, you're less than 50% to catch any low. So you have to catch that *and* have it be better than a low that the 7 and 5 caught. On 4th you're about 30%.

It still might not be the best play, but I don't think it's a leak because, as Cappy said, you're going to be in some super marginal situations on 5th street in your best case (reasonable) scenario. I'm leaning toward a ragged low like that against two seemingly better lows being a fold.

None of that matters because you're getting into a 4 way pot for only half a bet!!! You could be only 4-1 in a stud-hi game and this would be the same situation.

Now I'm not saying I would do this with any hand, but just something as small as having an Ace in the hole makes this marginal. Add in we are two-suited and have 3 low cards, and it's an automatic call.

I'm sticking with that unless checky says otherwise!

Of course this will lead to some marginal situations and tough decisions on 4th and 5th. Of course I was calling for 4th to be the 2 . Who ever said this was going to be easy?

Unfortunately I caught just enough to suck me along and ended up losing, but this isn't about results. Had I missed on 4th or 5th I would have easily folded, having only invested a little when I had the chance for half or maybe even all of a nice pot. The fact that it is 4-way is key - that puts enough money out there to peel 4th, then 5th with what will most likely be a one way hand.

Regardless of whether its Stud Hi/Lo and Horse Stud Hi/Lo, I still think folding third, while crazy at first, is best in the long run with your cards the way they are (move the ace from the hole to your doorcard, and EVERYTHING changes). Play for the scoop boys, not chasing half...

Call third - it's a strictly value call.

Fold 4th - you haven't caught anything, and are significantly behind to any sensible hand that your opponents are repping. You have no reason to peel anything there.

open farrell on fourth, as others have said

definitely call on third. if you were calling cold without the bring in, you could make a case for folding. not when you're calling 2/3 of a bet in a 4way pot with a high player involved, however. if, that is of course, you're capable of folding if you catch a 7 and both low draws catch goot on 4th or something similar.