Blinds: 200-400
Ante: 50
Your stack: 4200
# of Players at table: 9

The player under the gun limps in for 400. You've seen him limp all of the time with less than premium hands and he's folded to a raise.

The player in seat three also limps in for 400.

The button limps in for 400.

The action is up to you in the small blind and you have A-8 off suit. The big blind, and all of the other players at the table have you covered.

I fold. I hate A8o

With, what, 1800 in the pot and 200 to flop, making the pot 2k, I'd say folding is not an option for me in this situation, that's the one absolute here.

So then it becomes, call, raise, push. Knowing that at least one of my limpers is likely to fold, I could bet out to 2k.

It is odd that none of these people attempted a steal - particularly since I am the short stack in the hand - to me that means one of them has a hand.

I'd also estimate I am probably behind one of these people at this point, and any one of them can raise me all-in, putting me in hard-decisionville.

Eliminate that as a choice, then, for me - I like to make the other guy decide.

So all in or complete. Probably behind at least one other person. . . if I was short stacked, I'd push on the grounds it's not getting better before it gets worse...but without a little more info on the size of everyone's stack . . . Someone could cover me very casually.

My verdict? I'd complete my blind and try to flop the hand for nearly nothing. Probably not the manly play, but I bet I need a set of 8s to pull ahead.

Isn't there 2250 in the pot?

SB-200
BB-400
3 Limpers-1200
Ante-450

Ok, now that I realize how much is in the pot, I would complete, then most likely fold on the flop if nothing short of a miracle happened.

This appears to be a disaster waiting to happen, so I voted to fold. I'm sure I can find a better hand and/or better position to play from. I still have 10X the big blind so there is no need to get involved here. If an Ace flops out, what are you going to do then? The best you can hope for is to hit two pair or trip 8's. Even if you hit trip Aces, you either win what's in the pot already or get bounced out of the tournament holding A-8o. That would be pretty damn lame.

I wouldn't be opposed to calling and trapping if I hit the flop very hard. Otherwise, I probably check and fold on the flop.

I would call to try and catch a good flop (567 rainbow, all suited with your Ace, 88X, A8x etc). Imagine you had :heartsa: :spades8: and the flop was :hearts5: :hearts6: :hearts7: , can you say: ALL IN, lol. With an all in, the ace would almost definitely be clean as well since you would probably be called by a big pair.

Someone could be sitting on a hand so I don't think a raise is good here; however, if someone is sitting on a hand then you can likely bust them with a really good flop.

Since it costs so little to call and everyone has you covered, you clearly have the implied odds; however, you would have to tread very carefully if you flopped top pair...

Edited this for the money in pot, was slightly off. reasoning stands though.

This position sucks... The UTG Limped, According to The tell provided he's weak.

So figuring him for a fold It's 200 to call into a pot of 2250 with 1 player who will probobly fold, and 2 players that we have no reads on.

I'm Always wrong on these and this may be no different but I'll continue being honest with these. I would raise it to 2,000.

I'm not calling because we know a strong raise is capable of making the BB fold.

I'm not Folding because I've got 10x Big Blind, and Ante's are already in place, there's too much potential here. The pots Laying 1-11 for a smooth call, its very good odds pre-flop.

I'm Not going all-in because I like to have ammunition post-flop, If I feel they've missed there cards I can fire my last 2200 into the pot and hope I'm right. If I've hit the flop, or some type of promising draw I can play accordingly. If I missed the flop, I'm in SB and Have the powerful Button next hand, so if everything goes wrong I've got 2150 chips play with on the button.

Good call - I spaced out the antes. My reasoning stands tho.

hmm... i would call here.

A-8 offsuit isn't strong enough to push, ESPECIALLY since you're small blind in a nine-handed game (you can afford to wait for a few better spots, especially since the ante is only about 1% of your stack).

a raise to 2000 also kills you, both if you only get called by even one person and if someone limp-raises (now you have a very tough decision which is almost always a fold, and you've just wasted 1/2 your stack).

since you can't raise, your only options are push or call (folding isn't too smart, i don't think. you're getting strong, strong pot odds as shortstack as well as a cheap price to see a flop... can't ask for much more). since it's not premium enough to push here (especially if someone is sitting on something like A-Q and doesn't mind calling a shortstack's push if they have a lot of chips themselves), i think you have to call.

aseem

I disagree.. It's costing you 950 chips to make it around the table, thats 1/4 of your stack. Now we don't have any information regarding how close you are to the money, if your already in the money, if your on the bubble etc.. So I looked at it for the perspective that in order to cash, you're going to need to build your stack pretty soon.



I don't know how hard that decision is... There will be 8250 in the pot if one person pushes you all-in (atleast that you can win) and you've got 2,200 (roughly). So you're getting 1/4 on your call if you're placed in this situation.

The reason I feel just calling is a bad option is because of what Daniel Wrote above.


So this player is actually put in a very tough decision, He still has two limpers behind him to act, the only way he can feel confident even calling is with a very strong hand, knowing he might be pushed in as well. Judging from the knowledge we have on this player he has a weak hand, therefore he's probobly going to Fold.

That leave you with the possibility of two players seeing the flop with you, Seeing the flop heads up against one other player, or You being pushed in by one of the players.

So I think raising to 2k is still the right move. You're Eliminating one player who is probobly going to fold if you raise, so get him out of the pot. The last player could have limped with nearly anything, with that much money in the pot J-10 Suited wouldn't be a had hand to try to see a flop with. I'm not pinning any of these players on terribly strong hands, I take my chances.

By raising to 2k, I believe you're giving yourself the best chance to win this pot, if not pre-flop certainly post flop. You won't have to contend with 3 players acting behind you after the flop. By just calling you Really need to hit this flop strong to have a chance at winning it, I don't think you could take this pot down with 3 to act behind you unless you hit 2 pair or better.

Just my thoughts... this is really a good question

actually jweb, it only costs you 450 to go around the table. other than that, your points are well noted. tough decision.

i guess my biggest problem is that i just see raising to 2k as somewhat weak (not raising all of your chips), even though you know that you'll most likely have to either call the rest of your chips (if someone reraises) or push on almost any flop anyway. i don't think it's VERY likely that everyone will fold, though it's possible (depends on the stack sizes).

aseem

Bet it out... if you isolate to only a few players and the flop hits you, push it... if not try to use your position to your advantage. You leave yourself outs here if you get played back at, where as pushing it now leaves you at the mercy of at least 2 hands.

It's tempting to push it preflop, but with all those limpers someone has to call, leaving you with a vulnerable situation against at least 2 unknown quantitities.


The problem becomes that it looks like a steal here, especially if you go all in, which means you may get at least one call from marginal or stronger draw. Your hand becomes vulnerable because teh pot odds wills be off and makes it justifiable for a less than stellar hand to call. A large raise here makes it look LESS like a steal and more like a stronger hand, if you're sitting in the other guy's seat. Deep in tourneys, I look at all-ins as protecting your vulnerable hands and large raises in comparison to stack as putting enticing bets out there to bait you into hands you're probably going to lose unless you've got a premium hand. It depends on the feel of other players against you and how your table image looks. If you're tight this is a place most of them are going to run unless they're getting GREAT odds. If you're loose, you'll get a lot of calls. You have to be conscious of what your image is. If it's loose, it's a call and a large bet or push if the flop hits you.

Wait... can U explain why it's only costing 450?
200-400 Blinds and 50 Ante? Am I missing something here?

ah, i didn't include the blinds. i just meant you can go seven more hands, putting in around 1% of your stack each hand.

aseem

ahhhh allright I was starting to think I was going crazy.... So yeah.. I'm gonna stick with my Pushing 2k.

I love these quizes, I really do.

I can not begin to tell you how much they have improved my game. I almost always win with Jacks because of quiz #2 that I got all wrong. I use to play scared. Now I am considered quite aggressive.

I would raise to the 2K. Here are my reasonings, which I am sure I will get blasted for, but that is OK because this is how I learn.

I have 3 limpers. I am thinking that 1 or 2 of them are on a drawing situation. Maybe a small suited connector, maybe a queen 10 offsuit or just someone having a feeling and wanting to see a flop. If I want my ace to hold up to anything, I need to get a couple of them (if not all of them) to fold.

Now... If I go all in, someone may call my bluff. I think all in is way too much and it would show that you are weak.

However, by raising to 2k, I am showing confidence. I feel most will fold. I also feel that my Ace 8 may work out heads up with whoever calls. I really don't think anyone has a pocket pair and I am pretty sure no one has Ace k-10.

The only person I am really worried about is the big blind. It's a risk, but I think pushing to 2k is my only option of winning this pot.

Once the action is up to you, there is 2250 in the pot, giving you 11-1 to call, and if you raise to 2000, you still face someone limp/raising, and can easily be in a dominated position with someone limping with A-9, A-10 or above, I really dont think you are that strong at this point to raise with and be faced with someone else pushing back at you, or even someone calling and missing a flop, you'd be left with half your stack, I think the best option here is to just call, and hope to hit the flop.

You have 3 limpers, one of them is bound to have something. Plus the fact that you're a small stack will increase the chances they will call b/c they probably know you're getting desperate relative to the blinds. So moving all-in or raising 50% of your stack is not my choice.

I wouldn't call with A8 either b/c it would cost 10% of your stack and even if you do hit the A on the flop your kicker is not that great. Not worth the risk.

Folding is my choice.

P.S. In 9 quizzes I have never gotten one correct so take this with a grain of salt!!

You have to raise here, the only question is if you push or stop n' go.

I can't believe people are seriously talking about completing or even folding. There's 2250 in the pot and you have 4000 left. Nobody's shown any strength. You have real folding equity - if you push you're giving everyone less than 2-1 on their money

If you put your opponents on a calling range of AA-66, AKo-AJo, AKs-ATs, KQs-KJs, KQo, then you're getting 1.5-1 (because of all the dead money) as a 1.75-1 dog. You lose about 400 chips when called heads up. You gain 2250 chips when you steal the pot. 18% fold equity is the breakeven point. If you steal the pot 35% of the time, you make 525 chips by pushing.

I would definitely move in here. If anyone had a good hand they would have raised after the limp UTG. Maybe the last guy calls you with a hand like kq/kj or 55. But i would have to assume someone with 99 or higher, and and an ace strong enough to call your all in, would have raised after the limper. If you can steal here, yuo will increase your stack by 50%. Easy decision, IMO.

There is only one flop that will help you...A + 8. Any other situation and you are both out of position and probably out kicked. If an ace falls you are screwed and will only lose more.

Your flush opportunities will require you to exhaust your stack calling.

No straight options.

Fold and fold fast.

Now, if you provided me more info on the money situation I might go all in. Am I already in the money? Would a gamble here put me in position to hit the payoff cliff? If yes to both of these, then go for it...

Figure it this way. You're being laid 11:1 on completing the bet and there is virtually no way that A8o is a worse than 11:1 dog so the call likely has a very good EV if you expect the BB to check behind you. If you miss the flop you can get away from the hand almost as cheaply as if you hadn't played it at all.

My only stipulation for calling, and this could be just me, is that if I don't hit the flop I am NOT going to take a stab at it. I don't have a good enough read on the other players in the hand to realistically assess whether ANY type of flop helped them or not. So it's either make a good enough hand to push my last 4000 in the pot or check and fold, no other options for me after making the call.

Had this quiz been about a Cash Game, I'd agree with you 100%. This is a tournament though.. So You have to look at this differently (unless ofcourse it would be a freezeout, which Daniel would have mentioned).

So with that in mind... is it still correct so just call here? Citing your example of the 11:1 odds?

I love these quizzes as well. I really do. I think there's a legitimate case for all the options.

Fold, because A8o is still A8o.

Call, because of pot odds.

Push, because you do have an ace and they could fold for a 2x pot bet.

I think I give the edge towards just calling. I think it's unlikely the BB will raise the pot with this many people in the hand (unless he has a good reason to, which is more than enough to let us know we're no good if it happens). I also prefer post-flop play, and just calling gives us the ammunition to do it. Plus, if we miss, then it's a good thing we didn't push preflop, we can get away from the hand for basically the same amount of chips left.

i say go all-in. 2250 in the pot all limpers... i have A8o i push here UTG folds, which leaves BB, seat 3 and button left...

the only hands im really scared of is
A9-AK: where im a 70-30 to 3-1 dog
AA-88: where im a 94-6 to 70-30 dog
77-22: 57-43 to 52-48 dog COIN FLIP

those are the only real hands to be afraid of and i dont there will be 2 limpers especially one with position that will slow play AA-99 or AK, AQ.

the BB could have anything...

seat 3 probably has low pocket pair 55 or less, OR mid suited connectors...

the button could just be wanting to see a cheap flop with suited connectors, real low pocket pair 33 or 22, or maybe

A9s= 71-29 YOU ARE DOG
A8s= 53-47 YOU ARE DOG
A7s-A2s= 37-62 YOU ARE FAV

KJs= 46-54 YOU ARE FAVORITE
KTs= 46-54 YOU ARE FAVORITE
QJs= 47-53 YOU ARE FAVORITE
QTs= 47-53 YOU ARE FAVORITE
JTs = 48-52 YOU ARE FAVORITE


so i say push it all in... if no one calls u take the pot which with ur all in makes it 6200, so now ur stack is a bit more respectable. and if 1 person calls and u win your stack is 10,150. if 2 call and u win you have 14k and are sitting pretty.

the only drawback to this is that you are pushing with a hand that is statistically 91st out of all 169 hands. so that means there are better hands out there so you could wait for a better hand, seeing as how over half the hands in holdem are better then A8o.

waiting may increase your chance for a win, but with 3950 all in is still enough to maybe have everyone fold.

also each hand listed above is a statistically better hand then A8o.

A9s- 19; A8s- 24,

statistically better BUT YOU ARE FAVORED OVER THEM HEADS UP
A7s-30, A6s-34, A5s-28, A4s-32, A3s-33 A2s-39, KJs- 9, KTs- 14, QJs- 13, QTs- 15, JTs- 16

i say push here hit an A on the turn and take ur 6200 to dominate the tourney.

You didn't say anything about the tendencies of the other limpers.. the button limper is proably weak to, but what about the second limper? A raise sounds like a good idea, but I'd really have to know what the other two were like.. would they fold.. would they lay down something like A 10, would they limp in with something like 10 10 and call or re raise?


So, without info on the others, I guess I would call..

In order of preference...

Raise $2000.
Call.
Fold.
All-in.

The pot is big, over $2K, and this is a good spot to make a move. I'm worried about guy in seat 3 (and BB) mostly - definitely not UTG limper and much less the Button. I'm hoping to take it pre-flop, and A8x is not that bad if you're going heads up which is what is likely to happen if you get called. I'd almost certainly fold to an all-in re-raise.

Imagine, what cards you would need to hold to stay in after this SB raise. I think this is the strongest selling point of the strong pot sized raise. I think I would need Queens, but I 'd be cursing myself for not raising (unless I was BB).

After the flop, I'm going all-in on most flops because my post-flop skills suck and can only make a move.

I've read the thread now and would like to argue against some things...

The all-in move. The raise to $2000 accomplishes most of the pushing you need while leaving you options. True it's only 2:1 pot odds but you are essentially saying you're in for your whole stack. I can easily see someone with a better hand like AK calling your all in at this point.

Cautious play of A8x. If you do not make moves like this in tourneys you will be a loser. You are playing the situation here and not your cards - if things work as planned, you never go all-in or show your cards here. A8x does suck - but heads up - not that bad.

This being said, I wait to be schooled. I'd like to hear what people think about post-flop play. I'd almost hate to see an Ace hit except for the hopes that my opponent has pocket Queens.

My preference would be to bet out $2,000 which is a little less than the size of the pot. I can see the benefits to this play as UTG will probably fold as will seat 3 since he has to be worried about the button. I then have the button isolated and I just have to hope that the flop doesn't help him.

My worries are that he has an A x that dominates my A 8 but by raising, I take back position from him.

Of course if I get re-raised, I have to fold but that still leaves me about 2,000 chips to continue play.

If I think that seat 3 and the button are capable of slow playing a strong hand, then I would just call the bet. This would be my second choice.

I think that we might need some more information about the Seat 3 limper, the guy on the button, and the big blind to make a good decision.

Obviously, the person that has limped from early position doesn't have much of a hand, given the information that Daniel provided. But what about the guy in seat 3 that limped? I take that to mean that he is in early position also. Given that Daniel didn't provide any informaion about him, you got to believe that he has some sort of standard, early limping type of hand, like some middle suited connector or 2 high cards.

I take what he said about the button to be just a standard button limp, just trying to get in cheap in the best position and hit a huge flop. Probally not much of a hand here at all either.

But what about the big blind? The only given information about him is that he has you covered. What elese has he done? Has he been re raising when you have raised his blind? Is he tight? I he a loose player? I really see him as being the key.

If he is a tighter player, and given that he is in the BB, you got to believe he might be weak here, I'd really try and get a good sense of how he reacted to seeing his cards. If I sensed he was weak, my move is probally all in then, because of 2 reasons:

1) you got to believe that the 3 players that acted in front of you are weak.
2) If in fact they are weak, it doesn't matter what your cards are, they shouldn't call an all in if you force them to decide.

I honestly think the worst idea is raising to 2,000. I think that for sure you are going to get called then, probally creating a big multi way pot between you, the BB, and seat 3. Then what if the flop is something like A J 2 with 2 cards of the same suit, you check, and seat 3 bets? You got to put him on an ace then with a fair kicker, maybe even something like AJ, Ace 10, Ace 9, all of wich have you in really crappy shape. And if the flop is just all rags, something like 10 6 3 rainbow or K 5 9, something that just really misses you, you are not exactly in prime bluffing position.

It also, to me, show that you are a little weak, maybe opening yourself up to that re raise. The re raise that you couldn't call.

Why not just take it down right there?

This will end up being daniels answer to the quiz

Fold.

I fold,and wait for a better spot. it's close, but I'm not quite at the point where I'm looking to go all-in with any ace. Yeah, UTG limps with trash and might fold to a raise, but there are two other people in the hand I have to worry about. I think I'll get either a better hand than A8 OR a better place to push than here if I fold and continue playing.

I raise to 2000 for all the reasons Jayson stated.

I fold here as well

It really depends a lot on my table image, and how passive I believe the other players to be. I voted push here though, because I think it is unlikely anyone has a huge PP, and I think it would take jj-aa or ak to call a push from me here. Your read suggests the UTG player has a weak hand so I don't have to worry about him have one of those hands, and anyone coming in behind with one of those premium hands would be very unlikely to limp... unless they're terrible or I am sitting at an agressive table and they expect a steal. It largely depends on my read of the table, but by default this looks like a perfect place to try a steal. IMO it is a choice between a 2000 raise and all-in but I like all in better so I don't have to worry about someone putting me on a steal and trying to push me off it. By pushing they don't have to option to play back at me.

easy fold

Well, with the knowledge that the player under the gun limps in with mediocre hands and crumbles after a raise, coupled with the 3rd seat and the button also just limping in, as the big blind I would raise.

It's almost clockwork that 1st positiong will fold.

If the 3rd seat had a middle to large pair or high connectors, he would've raised, so you can expect a fold or if they call, you can probably put them on attempting to slow playing something decent. Perhaps even hoping to make a set with their small pair.

The button, if they had any sort of hand would raise. Being in position and simply calling tells me he's got junk and nothing like suited connectors, high connectors, any sort of middle or higher pair.

With that reasoning, I personally would raise it because the chances of stealing a few blinds is rather high.

I think moving in is clearly the best play in this spot. Of course A8o is far from a premium hand, but there is 2250 laying out in the pot for the taking. The justification that you can wait for a better spot is not very good considering the amount of information that you are given on this hand.

If you fold and wait the whole round, yes, you may pick up a hand better than A8o; however, many hands are raised and you probably cant make that many steals before you wittle away. What if a player raises and you pick up a hand like AJ or 55. What kind of a spot are you in now? The amount of information given on this hand is far better than most "better spots", unless you pick up a huge hand and get action. Even if you do fold and pick up a premium hand, you may not get any action and merely pick up the loose change. There is so much dead money in this pot that it is definitely worth taking.

I think the "call and hope for a good flop" justification is absurd. How many good flops are you going to hit with A8o. Rarely will you flop two pair or better. Even top pair is no lock.

I really dont like the raise to 2000 play because with 400 already in the pot and other limpers, the limpers will probably call. You are then stuck, hoping to get a good flop. No offense to JaysonWeber, he's a good guy, but the idea of "feeling like they missed the flop" absurd. You have to think about the range of hands that these players might limp with. This is a very wide range:

22-99
AT-A2 (suited or not)
KQ-K9
QJ-Q9
JT-J8
Small suited connectors

It is going to be nearly impossible to gauge if your opponents hit the flop or not. All you can do is hope. I don't like hope too much, it hasn't worked for me before.

To justify the claim for moving in. You have 4200 and there is more than 50% of your stack laying out for the taking. Most players will not limp and call an allin (unless trapping). The limpers behind UTG probably do not have a trapping hand considering there has already been a limp in front of them. Even if you are called, you are probably not in that bad of shape. Going back to the hand range. Even if you are called, you are at worst a 3 to 1 dog. In most spots, you are the favorite. However, you are not likely to be called. There is far too much dead money out there to steal and all other options don't make sense (although I can see some logic in folding).

the only justification i can see in folding is that you will have the button and can see seven more hands before posting the BB, but i still think moving in is the best play by far

My thinking: given what you've seen from the UTG player, the other players should have seen it too. So, with a reasonably strong hand like a good ace, I think either limper would have raised to try to take the pot down right there. So I think that seat three is very likely to be slow-playing a big pair to try to trap UTG after the flop, or hoping that someone raises behind him, since I think he would raise most weaker but playable hands to try to take down the pot right there. Button could have anything, but probably isn't extremely strong given that he didn't raise.

So, I'm calling, and (assuming the BB checks) I''m check-folding on any flop that doesn't have either an A or two eights. If I do catch an A on the flop, I'm going to attempt a check-raise (probably all-in), assuming that it's good, unless I see tons of action after I check that leads me to believe it's not.

I don't like raising, because you'll fold any hand you're ahead of, but I think you'll get called (or re-raised) by most hands that are ahead of you (even if you go all-in, any of your opponents would be getting decent odds to call (3800 for a 6100 pot)). And I think seat 3's limp is very scary.

Gosh... I hope I am right on this one! Keeping my fingers crossed.

I said RAISE! I still stand by decision. How else are you going to increase your stack?

ok I'll take a shot at this one.
1. folding is insane
2. calling. hmm calling. not as bad as folding, but I still dont like it. out of position, letting the big blind in. no thanks.
3. lots of times an utg limper will set off a chain reaction of limping.If a player sees 3 limpers in front of him and hes on the button he can come in with a wide range of hands( relative to chip count obviously)

your only concern is getting the utg player to fold. if he folds the other players hands are probably marginal and cant call.

oh yeah----move in here for the record

making it 2000 is a close second, but I dont want to miss the flop and have to bet into 2 random cards.

I have my $50 in for ante, and $200 for the small blind. $250, and the pot is 1850, including my share. Well, normally I'd want to play her for a good price, but my position sucks because I hae to act first. Calling can be sticky, because evein if you hit an Ace, you don't know if you're best--and you're first to act. I think my decision would involve the chemistry of the table, but I'd be more apt to fold since I would be on the button the next hand, and be able to get a look at 7 more free hands before being in the blind. That would total 350 in ante's which isn't that bad. I think I'd rather pic a better spot. The next hand I play could very well be the last-I don't want to go broke with A8 off.

i'm a pro, i have the right answer:

"it depends"

ahaha.
seriously though, i like the 2000 raise, except the limpers in third and button position may have originally limped in part trying to build a pot, and by not raising with lots on the table probably do not have premium hands. nevertheless, if you raise 2000, they will be getting layed significant odds, and may call simply due to that, plus that you have so little left and will be forced to go all-in.
it seems to be that you don't really have enough to deploy the 'stop-and-go' strategy for all-ins if they are pot odds type players. unless i was playing against real pros (and was one myself, so my expected potential for winning the tournament after the hand was not a significant variable) i think the two available plays are to fold or push all-in.

in a cash game, calling is probably my decision of choice, but as sklansky says, the less chips you have the more valuable they are, so those 200 chips to me are too valuable to call in hopes of hitting a big flop. in a cash game, i'd take the chance of hitting the good flop, since i can afford to lose some of my chips if my hand hits and loses (likely with Ax).

so the decision is to fold or go all-in in my opinion, and it will largely be based on how relatively short stacked i am, both in reality and in the other player's perception (if they all have 100 bb, my move will look desparate and will likely get called), and depending on my confidence in my ability to finish higher if i fold (and the payout structure).

by the way, including variables like confidence in ability to finish higher, the benefits of it, other player's perception of my stack, etc is a good intro to the type of things that can go into a 'math' decision if you're a guy like paul phillips who considers every decision a mathematical one. a very very basic introduction. i was trying to think of a good example in a previous post, so i guess this works.

now that is some good fence-straddling.
fold or go all-in, it couldn't be any greyer, eh?

heh. seriously though, if someone wants to take the trouble to properly read this, i would really love comments/analysis as i am a terrible tournament player, but i love the theory aspect of it, as an economics major.

cheers,
daniel

I think the most likely player to have a hand is 3rd position, as long as you have reason to suspect there could be a raise. Are there aggressive players yet to act? Esp. you in the small blind and the BB? If you think he knows this, he probably wouldn't limp with some medium SC or small PP due to the likelyhood of someone raising. I think this guy has to have some sort of value in his hand, and definately a hand he could at least call a raise with.

I think if he knows that this dude is weak, he would try to raise him and take down the pot right there, or at least secure position on him, by raising any sort of AK or medium PP kind of hand. He could easily have AA or KK hoping to pop a late position player trying to push the UTG player off the pot.

I think my play is to call and check any A flop and see what happens behind me, fall immediately in love with any sort of 88x flop, or otherwise bail on any other flop. I would have to think that the 11-1 pot odds are worth a call, even though you have a dwindlng stack, but a raise puts much more of your stack in much more immediate jeopardy.

I'll think about it for a few minutes more and then vote...

Definate fold

You hit an A, you have a crap kicker, you hit an 8, and more than likely you have middle pair. The only salvation is if you flop a set or 2pr.

Its a crap hand no matter how ya look at it.

What could you possibly hope to hit?

An Ace? Me thinks not.
Having said that you are double suited!

Calling is out then!

The position stinks and you still have the BB and the possibility of someone slow playing a big hand. Seen it done UTG limp re raise and others with far bigger hands than A8o trying to catch a cheap flop.

Raising is too risky here only going to keep hands better than you're in

All in? No chance with that pile of piss

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FOLD

I may have missed it but I didn't see one person post the right answer. The answer is MOVE ALL IN!!! You are taking a chance BB doesn't have an "all-in" hand, but you know the rest of the table is dead money. Trust me, go all in and the table will fold. I've done it with weak weak hands with 7 limpers and got it all. This little move here is a good bet at re-building your stack.

Going off what daniel posted, with no other info on the table i'd say raise to 2k and if theres a flop move all in on flop. Or just move all in preflop

Reasons:

You'd assume u have a better hand than the BB, since A8o is better than a large amount of random two cards hands the BB could possibly have. He'd have to be worried about the limpers as well so he cannot call with A9 AT maybe AJ low pockets etc.. so thus narrowing the possible hands he needs to have in order to call.

UTG is said to be weak, so expect a fold from him.

Button cannot have limped with any strong hand after 2 early ppl have limped, so he wants to see the flop for cheap.

Only guy u have to worry about is the guy in seat 3. Now, what is his position @ the table? We're not sure what "seat 3" is. Is it EP, MP, LP? The earlier the position, the more worried we'd have to be.

Theres 2250 in the pot, pushing all in would make the pot 6k with 3,750 to call for anybody that wants to play.

Raising it to 2k would make it 1600 to go for anybody that wants to play, with the pot being 4,050. It'd make it look like u want someone to call, + they also need to worry about the hands of the people that are behind them. I think this is called the "squeeze" play. If anyone calls then your moeny is going in on the flop anyways so they'll have another chance to fold. It'd be more useful if we had the chip counts of the other people at the table, thus knowing how effective each play would be.